Can Sonic be saved from neverending mediocrity? Sonic the Hedgehog 4 looks to be a step in the right direction, but who knows if Sega has learned from their mistakes by now or if it will just be a temporary relief.
I honestly stopped caring a long time ago. Sonic Heroes was the last Sonic game I liked.
Sonic 1,2, Sonic and Knuckles are the only good ones. 3 and Adventure were mediocre, Adventure 2 is abysmal and everything after is unplayable
>>79070>I am Moe KING Tripfag !REDREDLOGo!KINGofFAGGOTS and my standards are low
People who ask "how to save Sonic" are quite similar to those who ask "how to save Wonder Woman." Most haven't bothered to even take the slightest look at the product in years, become entirely unpleasable no matter which direction is taken, get hung up on completely unimportant details and simply assume that they know what the franchise needs without giving any real thought as to how it'd work in a final product. (LESS CHARACTERS! BRING BACK EVERY CHARACTER MADE BEFORE 1998!)
>>79068Sonic Unleashed was a GOOD GAME. All who say otherwise are faggots.
>>79076This.
>>79069Wut. 3 and SA2 are the best in the whole series.And no, SU was not good, not until they rerelease it sans the werehog.
>Can Sonic be saved from mediocrity?No. He was cool at the same time rollerblades and EXTREME!!! was cool. His shelf life is long over. I think Sega should just start focusing on creating a new mascot. Let Sonic die with dignity. Seeing as all of Japan seems stuck in the 60s as far as creativity is concerned, his future isn't bright at all.
>>79076SU's character design was so well done. I hope future games utilize the artists
>>79083The werehog is a dozen times better than Tails, Eggman, Rouge AND Knuckles. And considering how the day stages play in comparison to Shadow and Sonic's stages (which is to say fucking amazingly compared to pretty spaztic and press-right-to-win) to say that Sonic Unleashed does anything but blow Sonic Adventure 2 out of the water is pretty much outright lying. Even the OH-SO-HATABLE voice acting is leagues better, although part of that is them limiting the speaking roles to about four characters.>>79085Oh man, same here. I love GURUHIRU's art, their mix of Western and Eastern cartoon sensibilities work SO PERFECTLY for Sonic.
>>79090Yes it does, He(or she) needs to be head designer for the series along with the writer, who I'm sure could do better given a few games to play with.
Eh, fuck it. I'm gonna give the rest of SU a chance. Loved the demo and Werehog can't be THAT atrocious. Though I am looking forward to 4.
>>79107Werehog from what I've seen isn't horrible, it just has shitty platforming because of the camera and the combat is repetitive.
Sonic Unleashed was a titanic steaming pile of meh.In my opinion.The were-hog mode felt sluggish and repetitive. Completely unnecessary for a sonic game.The actual Sonic stages where alright but way too short and far too few. I may be mistaken, but it felt like there was actually more beat-em-up game play over the real reason I would ever purchase a Sonic game.
you know what i'd do? i'd dissolve sonic team once and for all and start from ground fucking zero. give the franchise to a studio that hasn't had anything to do with sonic ever, see what they can come up with (how about platinum games for example? i bet they could make something interesting). and i'd give them only one condition: the game has to be GOOD.
>>79123Did it in 2006, Sonic Team is made up of completely different people, mostly Sonic the Hedgehog fans. That made the good game Sonic Unleashed (a giant homage and step up even from the Sonic Adventure games, like Sonic 4 is supposed to be an homage to the Classic games [although of course that's not going to be a step up from the originals.])Also did it by giving Sonic Chronicles to Bioware; the game was FUCKING TERRIBLE.
>>79120>I may be mistaken, but it felt like there was actually more beat-em-up game play over the real reason I would ever purchase a Sonic game.That would be because there is. I watched people play Sonic Unleashed and it took about 5 minutes on average to complete a day stage level. Night levels took about 30 minutes or more.
>>79128Which was made MUCH worse in the Wii/PS2 version, where there several times more Night levels than there were Day levels (360/PS3 had a much better balance, especially considering the DLC.) The werehog levels WERE longer, because they were slower. The platforming was okay (nothing too special, but it wasn't bad) and unless you spent all your points in Strength or Combos combat was sort of boring. However, even with this, the werehog is still more entertaining than the same non-Sonic characters found in Sonic Adventure 1 and 2, and you still get more Sonic by percentage by the virtue of there not being FIVE other characters and gameplay mechanics (of which maybe 2 are fun) to choose from.Over 30 minutes sounds a bit long. What level was this...?
>>79130It was one of the early levels night levels. I don't remember which one exactly as I never played it but I have been tempted to buy it simply because of how cheap the game is now.
>>79133Oh! I think I know what level you're talking about. Was it in a place that sort of looked like Italy, and had you climbing a large clock tower? That might be my least favorite level in the game. I don't know why, but the platforming in that level is just so OFF compared to the rest of the game. There's only really one level that's as bad as that, and it's in Shamar.With the game being cheap now, I'd recommend it for 360/PS3. It's not the Game of the Year, but it's a fun solid title that gets WAY more flack than it deserves.
>>79135Yeah it was one of those early levels. I recall it took them about 45 minutes to finish (or maybe that was the final stage, it's been a while since I've seen the video). The 360 version is also probably the version I'd buy just so I wouldn't have to install the game.
>>79076This.Its become a meme at this point. People are already bitching about Sonic 4 over the slightest thing.
>>79135Of course it does. I mean, I didn't like it, but it wasn't riddled with shit like previous ones. Either way, it's one of the "cool and edgy" thing to do on the *chans. Hate Sonic and anyone who might have a different opinion is obviously a furfag. In the end, they're games aimed at a very young audience. Picture unrelated, it's a Fresco racing a Jet truck.
>>79156You can aim for a young audience and still make a good game, though.
>>79157I haven't played a good Mario game since the N64. Which is, oddly enough, farther back than the last good Sonic game.Don't give me Super Mario Galaxy, that shit was terrible, and the wiimote made it even worse.
>>79160>I have not played a Mario game since the N64Just be honest, there's no shame in it.
>>79157Very true, but let's be honest: Kids will play anything.
>>79163I own Sunshine, was roomies with a Wii owner, where I played Galaxy. Skipped Mario & Sonic, don't count Smash Bros (and Melee is better than Brawl), and Mario Party 1 & 2 are the only ones that aren't retarded and broken and bad. Even though they're retarded and broken and bad.tl;dr opinions are assholes, and yours stinks.
How about a new Sonic the Fighters? There are definitely enough characters to fill out a roster....Having it double as a spiritual successor to Power Stone would be good, too...
>>79166Sunshine and Galaxy play exactly like 64, but with better environments.Also play the RPGs, they're the best part of the series, especially 1000 Year Door.
>>79166>Melee better than Brawl>Brawl has a larger cast, with less clone characters, and otherwise is exactly the same but with some extra modes
>>79168I disagree that those are like Mario 64, theyre entirely different.Although I agree that the RPGs are the best things out with the Mario label at the moment.
>>79172>theyre entirely different. Really? I mean the only real different mechanic in Sunshine was FLUDD and if Galaxy had the same mechanics but removes him...
>>79160You hardly USED the Wii remote.What are you talking about?
>>79176>Nintendo has completely forgotten how to make a decent 2D Mario game.I never had a problem with the new ones. What did you not like?
>>79172I can't say about Sunshine as I never played it but I do agree about Galaxy not being the same as 64. It lacked the fun of exploration and some alternate paths to getting to the goals. So it was basically just a linear 3D Mario in space. For the record I know Mario is based on linearity, but with Galaxy it mostly just "Jump from mini planet to mini planet until you reach your goal."
>>79176FUCK YEAH, SUNSHINE. Mario of the year all years (not counting the RPGs).
>>79084This. I never have seen why gaming is set on certain series having neverending sequels.
>>79183I think you're wrong. But that's just my opinion.
>>79160I'm halfway with you there. I could have played the shit out of Galaxy... if it weren't for getting sore arms from actually having to hold the wiimote in mid air.
>>79193It's what killed gaming for me. I've played Halo, Mega Man, Pokemon and Sonic, give me some new stuff, stop patronizing the fat, unhygenic "hardcore" retards and make NEW GAMES.
I LIKE MY EXISTING SERIES, AND I LIKE NEW STUFF, WHY CAN'T WE JUST HAVE BOTH?
I found this pair of videos that detail what's wrong with Sonic, and a way to save the series.
>>79278
>>79278>>79279
>>79258Because the existing series are stagnant, boring, but still guaranteed sales.
>>79282Whether they are stagnant and boring or not would depend on the series I would thing.
>>79278To explain what's wrong with Sonic shouldn't require "overthinking" because it's not even that hard to figure out. Just stop with the retarded stories, gimmick gameplay styles and give us classic running hella fast through the level Sonic. The only problem is is Sega needs to realize Sonic fans are either creepy faggots or nostaliga filled and future games likely won't see the kind of praise it got from Sonic 3 and Knuckles. Same pretty much applies for future Mario games ever since Super Mario Bros 3.
>>79279>>79278For every good point he makes, he makes two more that are clearly inaccurate or so blindingly obvious that the fact that he thinks he's being edgy or intelligent by stating them that it's infuriating. FOR FUCK'S SAKE, MORE THAN HALF THE SHIT HE SUGGESTS WAS ALREADY DIRECTLY USED IN SONIC UNLEASHED. RUNNING ON WATER, DASH BUTTON, MOMENTUM, NO SUPPORTING CAST.AND SATAM ROBOTNIK SUCKED. ROBOTNIK AND EGGMAN COMPARISONS IS NOT A HARD FUCKING TRUTH.Oh my god he even goes into HIS OWN SONIC CONTINUITY WHY AM I STILL WATCHINGOh my god he's a misunderstood bullied child experimented on by Eggman who now resents himWhy would you LINK THIS?
>>79069Adventure 2 was tight and I'm really not sure why people hate it so much. The speed theme that made Sonic famous was there as the main point.
>>79289The story wasn't quite as tight as Sonic Adventure 1, and the characters introduced (Shadow and Rouge) are pretty easy symbols for what went wrong with Sonic's storytelling.
>>79279>Now hold on, I'm not saying canonize the entirety of SATAM, even though you'd probably have a huge hit.Because kids today give a fuck about a cartoon that ended a decade before they were born.
>>79292It wasn't even THAT good.
>>79290They were perfectly fine in that game. Shit went wrong thereafter.There hasn't been a single good Sonic games since Adventure 2. And no, Sonic Unleashed was not good.>>79285The difference being that Mario games are still good and often receive massive praise.
This has probably been pointed out but....is Sonic even for "us" anymore? I thought these games still sold a bunch cuz of little kids who don't give a shit kinda like those Ben 10 and Avatar games.I dunno, I just kinda wrote it off and just stopped caring after playing the Shadow demo way back.
>>79295If Sonic Unleashed is not good, then Sonic Adventure 2 isn't. There's nothing wrong in Sonic Unleashed that Sonic Adventure 2 didn't do worse.>>79296This is partially true. Sonic games are made for kids first and foremost.
>>79296I still really love exploring interesting and expansive locales at high speeds. Sometimes that means I have to deal with annoying characters. Whatever, no biggie; there are still interesting ones around to keep things bearable.
>>79299Adventure 2 had better gameplay as well as better story and cast (I HATE CHIP SO MUCH FFFFF).
Omochao.
>>79301The day levels in Sonic Unleashed do everything Sonic Adventure 2 did and more/better. The Werehog levels are just Knuckles levels but somewhat better designed, and thank god there's no real equivalent to the Tails/Eggman stages. The controls are better and there's more actual Sonic to play, so how COULD SA2's gameplay be better?Sonic Adventure 2 certainly had a more expansive narrative, but to say it's definitively better than Sonic Unleashed's lighthearted tongue-in-cheek is... well, how do you really compare it? SU doesn't TRY to be as 'epic' or serious as SA2. It's like comparing one of the Classic games. Still, that one is purely opinion.In terms of cast, though, I'll take Professor Pickles and Chip over Rouge any day. Shadow WAS pretty good, but went through a really bad phase (which ended surprisingly in the otherwise abominable Sonic 06) but Rouge has pretty much never been all that interesting or useful. Hers is the only Face Heel Turn that doesn't make much sense, since her ulterior motives are never changed or explained; they just sort of disappear while she becomes Knuckle's (and later Shadow's) hanger-on. Chip WAS sort of irritating; but he was hardly ever treated as a serious character. He was content to sit in the background making jokes while the plot went on, and didn't force a third of the game to focus on HIS adventure in what plays like a completely different title.Hungry stoner sage > Busty bitch bat
>>79305The Tail and Eggman stages were better than the Treasure Hunting AND Werehog though.
>>79305Did you just imply that the Knuckles/Rouge levels in SA2 were better than the Tails/Eggman levels?I'm sorry, Penguin God, I can never take anything you say seriously ever again.
>>79305>>79306>>79308I agree.
>>79308>>79306Eggman's were debatably as good as the better Rouge/Knuckles stages, but the gameplay was WAY too different from Sonic's since as most people here have said, running fast and platforming is what they're here for.Tails' levels just sucked out loud no matter how you look at them though. They were awful, and the only time playing with him was ANY fun was when you were fighting rival Eggman.
>>79311I agree.You know when it WAS fun to play as Tails? During the assault on the Egg Carrier in SA1. That was great.
>>79311I'm not going to claim that they were terrific, but their worst sin was being boring. Knuckles/Rouge's stages were abominations before god.
>>79314Yeah, actually, I really liked Tails' role in SA1. It wasn't anywhere near perfect, but it was a fun fitting role for the character.>>79317Some Knuckles/Rouge stages were abominations, for sure, but not ALL of them. The concepts were usually fairly sound, just executed to varying degrees of painful. Tails' levels were UNBEARABLY SLOW AND CLUNKY in addition to being boring and pointless. I HAAATE THAT PLANE-MECH.
I have long since ceased to care and moved onto other series. Sometimes series just aren't MEANT to continue people, and we have to accept that.
>>79292 >>79294 Yes, but there's always a nostalgic bunch that'll jizz themselves over it.>>79286 I never promised that you would like his ideas, only that they were relevant to the thread.
>>79319What determines whether or not a series goes on is the simple question of if it's profitable or not.
If someone took Sonic Unleashed and took out everything between the levels, it would fit my idea of a great Sonic game.
>>79410... Yeah that was pretty much the Wii version.
The Wii version also made it easier to collect medals. What's more, you don't even need them to unlock new stages. Just special bonus areas in the temples filled with challenging platform puzzles that let you unlock bonus content and extra lives for the revised lives system that only the Wii version has.
>>79413I thought the WiiS2's version was worse with that, really. It was all the same problems, but worse-looking.
>>79415It doesn't look that bad. How pretty does it have to be? You're whizzing by most things at a million miles an hour anyway, so it's hard to appreciate shinyness.
>>79417I just meant for the hubs. That text-only crap is just as annoying, the only difference is it also looks like ass.
>>79420It's also much faster.
>>79437Only the first time you want to do a level. After that, you can just select it from the overworld.
http://www.destructoid.com/development-teams-behind-sonic-colors-revealed-174795.phtmlVideo unrelated, or is it?
The trouble with the Sonic franchise is it doesn't have a soul.The very first game I played was Sonic 1, okay? I was three years old and couldn't figure out labyrinth zone to save my life. I was a lifer for a good ten years. I still read the damn comic. But you guys. Sonic was a series made in response to another series. Any creative vision or originality dried up after the first game. It's kept around not because they want to recapture their lost audience or because they have cool new ideas with the characters. It's kept around because he's Sega's Mario.
And it saddens me to no end, sure. But honestly the "next gen" games (which are hella-old now too) are so bad they've nearly ruined the original games for me and the even-more-next gen games look even worse. He's in Brawl and I appreciated that but I don't intend to spend any more of my money on a Sonic game.
What I mean is.....they didn't make Sonic 4 because they want to "bring Sonic back to his roots" or whatever. Retro, sidescrolling DLC games are in. That's as much as they thought about this. Capcom too, but whatever.
>>81145At least Capcom put in a little more effort than "make a half-assed Mega Man game". They went and essentially made two brand-new NES games well over a decade after the system died.
Okay, so here's a question: Which era of music do you guys prefer?
'Cause I'm a little torn. The Sonic series has really had great music throughout the franchise.
Really, you can almost measure a Sonic game by how good the music is; the better the music, the more fun the gameplay.
.
'Cause Sonic Rush Adventure and 2k6 both had really bland soundtracks. 2k6 didn't even have a memorable final boss track, and that song is supposed to be the most memorable and epic in any game!
Oh man, how did I forget about this song.It's glorious.
Really, I like the idea of the two Wii-only titles for Sonic with the over-the-shoulder camera; the speed could be pretty high at some parts.However, I'd like to have the camera move back quite a bit, and angle up to become some weird 3/4 view from behind. Then add in A LOT of branching/hidden paths, and top it off with Ye Old Bullettime. When you're approaching a branch, something notifies you (whatever shitfairy is with you sparkles or Sonic goes "Hey, look!") and you press X to win slow down time in order to be better able to change paths without really slowing down. Has your general recharge meter et al.; maybe have it reliant on ring collection. Can also be useful for boss battles, especially, say, METAL SONIC.
Whoever this SonicKAI person or group is, I love them. I wish to have their babies.
The sonic adventure games were TOO proud of their (admittedly awesome) music. I couldn't hear what anyone was saying. Which is for the best, what with their legendarily bad localization.
1.) Sonic is the main character. Not a co-star.2.) Tails is the second player character.3.) There are no other protagonists.4.) There is no mention of humans beyond Robotnik. They're unimportant.5.) Sonic RUNS FAST.6.) Sonic JUMPS HIGH7.) Sonic LOOP-THE-LOOPS8.) Sonic HITS BOSSES 8 TIMES TO WIN.Blue hedgehog races through a colorful environment and fights a boss. Optionally collects emeralds and does homage to Akira Toriyama with Super Sonic. JUST THAT. THIS. MAKE THIS GAME. No human characters, no love interest, no drama.Simple. Simple formula. And they keep getting it wrong or changing the recipe. arghhghrghalarrghharbleburgers
>>81170The humans bit is such a non-issue. There's nothing making Mobians any better as side character NPC's. Hell, I can count the number of humans who have actually been given much attention on one hand. Dr. Ivo "Eggman" Robotnik, Gerald Robotnik, Maria Robotnik, Princess Elize, and Professor Pickles (well, that one's debatable. But he gets a voice actor, so I guess it counts.)The rest of this is mostly actually in the new Sonic games, except for Tails being playable. argleblargleharglepeoplebitchingaboutgamestheydidn'tactuallyplaybutassumingitsucked
>>81177>implying Sonic needs NPC characters beyond animals popping out of robots, period.thbbb.
>>81170>3) There are no other protagonists.That is where you and I disagree, sir. There are plenty of other characters that are or could be just as much fun to play around with.