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  • 08/21/12 - Poll ended; /cod/ split off as a new board from /pco/.

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77863 No. 77863
Or, "I Did it for a Girl"
The last thread: >>73025

Even if you give it a fancy name like "Chaotic Dance of the Exploding Winds", it doesn't change the fact that Katon is still relatively useless in this universe.
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>> No. 77865
Naruto is a bad manga.
>> No. 77866
So the big-bad is Obito, who somehow DIDN'T die when the boulder crushed half his body, and now wants to Tang the whole world EoE style just so he can get with the girl he was too much of a beta to woo when he was a kid (Does it tell you how she died?)

Is that about right? I don't want to actually get back into reading this nonsense just to find out how bad it is
>> No. 77867
File 134695088493.jpg - (47.23KB , 392x512 , 18_987.jpg )
This was literally the only good part about this week's chapter.
>> No. 77868
Hinata is waaaaay too good for that wanker, if he wants to be the ninja-messiah so badly he can remain celibate.
>> No. 77869
oops. made a good villain shitty.
Pain 2.0

villains i still care about include: orochimaru...



>> No. 77870
Isn't she pretty flat outside of that weird obsession?
>> No. 77871
Still too good for him.

Also 'flat' and 'Hinata' are two words that don't mesh...
>> No. 77872
File 134695316225.jpg - (91.12KB , 405x547 , i made a boob joke.jpg )
>Isn't she pretty flat

I'd say she's a very well-rounded character
>> No. 77873
>> No. 77878
>> No. 77892
Maybe his not a rule 88 person.
>> No. 77894
Hinata, in universe, is not rule 88, thanks goodness. Tsunade might barely qualify.
>> No. 77895
I know Hinata's tits are on-...two of the major redeeming features of the series, but surely there must be more to talk about?
>> No. 77896
Well, the main villain has been revealed as Obito. And Naruto's got some crazy attitude. And an Uchiha is cocking everything up.

So. . .no.
>> No. 77900
File 13471242131.jpg - (186.20KB , 800x1137 , naruto-3572233.jpg )

Is Kishimoto going to ignore it and hope people forget about it? Say he was brought back from the dead with a different version of Impure World Ressurection? "The Sharingan did it"!?
>> No. 77902
I took it as ghost shenanigans tied to ninjitsu vows, like by failing to uphold the promise he made with Kakashi he was resurrected.

or something dumb like that.
>> No. 77903
Why do Naruto threads on this board always start with images that look like "safe" pages from really weird porn?
>> No. 77907
>"The Sharingan did it"!?

Yep! It's the same reason that Madara is magically able to resist Kabuto's shutting down Edo Tensei; same reason that Itachi was able to defy Kabuto completely; same reason that Shisui's eye can do basically whatever the fuck and control minds.

I'm hoping that Madara decides that he didn't LIKE being impersonated by the weakest Uchiha in history (who was still stronger than the 4th Hokage, natch...) and the two of them get into a gigantic Sharingan battle. Gai and Naruto and Bee can grab some popcorn and take a load off, while Kakashi can provide a play-by-play (as I'm willing to bet the fact that Kakashi and Obito share a set of Sharingans will somehow lead to them being able to see each other's field of vision or some shit) for the times when they're just standing in place and spamming genjutsu at each other.

Then Naruto can go up to the statuefied pair and do mean stuff like kicking 'em in the nuts or doing a kanocho or whatever — see if it affects their concentration.

But more likely, Madara is just going to inform Obito that he's basically a zombie clone built out of the pieces that were left in the cave (probably by Orochimaru/Kabuto) which will lead him to break down both figuratively and literally as he disintegrates, his last words being to apologize to Kakashi for being a douche. Then the battle with (real)Madara and Naruto can commence, just in time for Sasuke to show up, WTFPWN Madara with a Super Hyper Mangekyo Sharingan Complete Susanoo Plus jutsu of his own invention and announce that the REAL Slim Uchiha has just stood up.
>> No. 77909
I thought we established that an epic sharingan battle looks like a staring contest to the casual observer.
>> No. 77919
The sharingan is the cancer killing Naruto.
All this game-breaking wank he keeps adding to it, allowing it to do anything, if this was a fanfiction it would fit right in as the overpowered creation some brat gave his OC so he could tromp all over the established characters and fuck all thier bitches.
>> No. 77922
Inb4 Madara/Tobi's ultimate move is shooting plot warping lazers out of their Sharingans.
>> No. 77923
Oh, whine whine whine, people in the thread. You're all going to keep reading it.

I for one am curious at to how this is going to play out; even if we figured out the Obito thing years ago. At the very least, it's making me hope that Kakashi will get his moment to NOT suck.
>> No. 77934
To be fair, I'm only still reading it to see how bad it actually gets before it's over.
>> No. 77944
File 134724559111.jpg - (19.60KB , 340x240 , You can just take it.jpg )
I don't actually read it, I just check this thread and sometimes hear about it on 4chan, so, yeah-
>> No. 77946

I don't think he's really setting out to intentionally make the Sharingan so overpowered, it's just added up to this slowly like an snowball into an avalanche. I seriously doubt he plans ANYTHING more than, say, a few chapters in advance. His plots are too full of WTF for that. I suspect he's a seat-of-the-pants, one-chapter-at-a-time manga artist just like Toriyama was when writing Dragonball; and at the same time probably never suspected Naruto would go on for SO DAMN LONG. So whenever he paints himself into a corner or needs an instant plot stimulator, he invents a new Sharingan technique. Same way Toriyama would just pull something out of his ass that Goku could suddenly do just because he's Goku. Can't defeat Frieza? Super Saiyan!! Itachi can't defeat Kakashi? Mangekyo Sharingan!! It's the same kind of thing.

I hate how he actually forgets important shit, though. Not those silly things he does as throwbacks like the half-a-tiger-seal thing that the statues of Madara and Hashirama are doing at the Valley of the End becoming the signal of a traditional ninja battle taught to everyone since childhood, or the infamous Crowjob, or throwbacks to characters not mentioned for a two-hundred chapters. Not that junk; I mean REALLY interesting shit. Like how, for the first half of the series, 99% of jutsu had to be done by a (sometimes rather lengthy) series of hand seals, but Haku could do them ONE HANDED. I mean, that largely became irrelevant because most jutsu nowadays just... happen... without any supposition of chakra manipulation whatsoever... but it was still really cool, and yet nobody since has ever been able to do that, nor was it even mentioned HOW it happened. Naturally, it was just another asspull to make Haku look extra-dangerous (because, honestly, a teenaged super-trap behind a mask wasn't giving anyone the chills), doing something so incredible even the mighty Kakashi: Copier of a Bazillion Jutsu had never seen or heard of it before. But still. It was pretty cool, and then never heard again. Why??
>> No. 77952

Because you're still trapped into thinking that only the first arc in Naruto was any good, maybe?

Because hey, lets face it, none of your other thoughts on him hold water; why was everyone so disappointed with the Obito reveal? Because we figured it out over a hundred chapters ago. Meaning he laid the clues out and had it planned over a hundred chapters ago.

Certainly, if Oda did something like this (lets assume his surprise would be better for sake of argument) no-one would doubt that this was intentional, but ohhh nooo, because it's KISHIMOTO, and we HATE dumbass Kishimoto, he's obviously just been flailing around screaming like a spastic for the past couple of chapters and let the mad swipes of his ink-brush dictate who the character was going to be.

I'm not saying he's great, but it seems to me that people often can't look past their own seething dislike of the man to give credit where credit is due. Even guys who follow Bleach give the occasional thumbs-up to Kubo's plus-points, if and when they appear.
>> No. 77953
>> Same way Toriyama would just pull something out of his ass that Goku could suddenly do just because he's Goku. Can't defeat Frieza? Super Saiyan!!

Soooo... Muffin Button then.
>> No. 77957
>why was everyone so disappointed with the Obito reveal? Because we figured it out over a hundred chapters ago. Meaning he laid the clues out and had it planned over a hundred chapters ago.

WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Reuploaded)youtube thumb

A small group of fans had 'figured it out'. Do you know what the whole basis for their figuring it out is? If you take the name Obito, drop the first O (which is a common honorary prefix in Jpanese), and switch the syllables around, you get Tobi. That's it. That is the whole of the 'hints', apart from the fact that whoever it is possesses a Sharingan (and who doesn't, really?) and as of a little while ago is not actually Madara Uchiha.

And before you say anything - yes, there was a whole storyline these fans concocted amongst themselves to explain how it could happen. But this was not based on real hints scattered throughout. It was an ex post facto argument: here is the conclusion we've reached (Tobi is Obito), how can we make the facts fit this conclusion? It was just another example of the fandom throwing shit at the wall . People were guessing literally every possibility; sooner or later, one of them would be right.

The actual reason most people are down on the reveal? Is that those theorists were widely derided because their theory makes no sense and in fact has made even less sense with recent flashbacks. Not only would Obito have to go from being a shit-tier ninja to being an UNSTOPPABLE FORCE that even Minato didn't feel he could win against in (and this in less than a year! not to mention that the Tobi depicted in that flashback is clearly a grown fucking man), we now have record of Tobi as active long before that. In order to be Tobi, Obito would have to have been mind-controlling the Mizukage from the age of nine onward. Before he ever even had a Sharingan at all.

If Oda made this kind of reveal we'd call it bullshit too. But that doesn't really matter, because Oda wouldn't make this kind of reveal, because he is actually a good storyteller with a head for his timeline. Kishimoto isn't.
>> No. 77959

Mmm, no. There was a little more than that I think. Obviously nothing more than hints, but his personality, his mask, stuff like that served as clues. That you didn't think those clues were credible is at this point your own fault, because, as it turns out, those theorists were on the money, and the hints they saw were the ones that bore through. (And yes, right now I'm thinking the name *was* one of those hints)

Also; consider that Madara knows who Obito is. I am thinking that perhaps you do not have enough pieces of the puzzle to make a judgement call on how hashed out this plot is. It could well be that Madada WAS Madara for a span of the history, or any number of things happened. We've yet to get the tragic villain flashback.

Of course, we may still end up with plot-holes and you can complain then. But currently it's a bit premature to do so unless you reeeeaaaalllyy just like having a dig at him.
>> No. 77961
Seriously? He friendzoned her? The NaruHina ship is sunk?
>> No. 77962
Nah its just a joke how even after she sacrificed herself to try and save him back during the Pein(is) arc he barely gave her the time of day, she doesn't show up in the latest chapter
>> No. 77964
Honestly I think the only way I'd be happy with this is if, like someone suggested, it's not Obito in control, just some bodysnatcher, and he's just fucking with Kakashi to kill his morale.
>his personality
...What about it?
Tobi has never acted like Obito.
>> No. 77968

His personality? Do you mean the goofy, happy-go-lucky Tobi, or the stone cold killer Tobi, neither of which behaved like Obito at all? His mask, which means absolutely nothing except 'probably a character we've seen before'? These are things that don't contradict him being Obito, but they aren't hints.

The only people who really called it on the merits are the people who just looked at Kishimoto's writing and guessed what he'd do, with absolutely no mind paid to whether or not it made any sense. "Even though it would make no sense at all, Obito is probably it, because that's the most Kishi thing to do". When that, rather than the 'what would make sense' test, is the most reliable predictor of where the story will go, you have a problem.

Also I think we can justifiably say that this presents various plot holes and problems on its own, given Kishimoto's record and the fact that the flashback in the reveal chapter created all sorts of timeline problems even if you pretend Obito wasn't in it at all.
>> No. 77969

I happen to believe that Oda is only marginally better, and that it's also completely impossible to plan out more than just a very rough plot-outline for a weekly-serialized manga of such length. It would be like a novelist trying to write a cogent novel, releasing each chapter one-by-one to the public, and never getting a chance to edit or revise anything. Plot holes, inconsistancies, and just plain dumb mistakes are inevitable. Toriyama (and I suspect Kishimoto) just decided that, being human, it's just impossible to avoid, and so pretty much do not try. Maybe Oda tries a little harder, but it's irrelevant. Unless he wrote out the ENTIRE PLOT before starting the first chapter, and stuck to it like glue, he'd screw up eventually. Fans are rabid and pay way too much attention to detail. Suppose he'd drawn this one guy, say, missing an important article of clothing? Fans would notice, and suddenly: Plot Hole! A novelist, through the course of several edits may discover that he's accidentally left out a key word, or once described a character he had a long while back as with hair, even though he was previously bald. He'll have the chance to fix that; but a manga artist does not have that chance. If he discoveres that later on, he has to invent some cockamaime plot device to repair it in the eyes of the fans. Such things tend to snowball out of control, and before long the plot has spiraled into something totally different than what he first intended.

And the reason why so many people thought Tobi was Obito was because they had become familiar with Kishimoto's "style" with mysterious character reveals, and because there frankly was a VERY SHORT LIST of people it could be. It had to be an Uchiha whose body was not recovered and confirmed dead. That left Shisui and Obito and I suppose some random unnamed Uchiha (but again, that's not in Kishi's style!). And given that we had been previously led to believe that Itachi murdered Shisui to gain his Mangekyo Sharingan, he was out, too. So Obito was literally the only logical choice as to his identity, besides his claimed identity of Madara. Once the "real" Madara was revealed, the alternate choices became zero.

Oh, and his "personality"? Pfft. There are precisely four base personalities in the Naruto verse. For girls, we have Tsundere and Ultra Shy. For boys we have Class Clown and Emo/Serious. Sometimes we get split-personalities that combine them in various ranges. Yes, Obito and Tobi were both of the "Class Clown" variety, but so are Naruto and Jiraiya and Konohamaru and Chouji and many others.

I mean, it was like the Republican party nomination of Mitt Romney. Everyone who had half a brain KNEW DAMN WELL that it was going to be him, since freaking January at least. Does that mean that the Republican party had been leaving "clues" as to that decision? No; it was just the only choice that made any sense. Even when all the choices sucked, it was the one that sucked the least.
>> No. 77970

His personality? Do you mean the goofy, happy-go-lucky Tobi, or the stone cold killer Tobi, neither of which behaved like Obito at all? His mask, which means absolutely nothing except 'probably a character we've seen before'? These are things that don't contradict him being Obito, but they aren't hints.

The only people who really called it on the merits are the people who just looked at Kishimoto's writing and guessed what he'd do, with absolutely no mind paid to whether or not it made any sense. "Even though it would make no sense at all, Obito is probably it, because that's the most Kishi thing to do". When that, rather than the 'what would make sense' test, is the most reliable predictor of where the story will go, you have a problem.

Also I think we can justifiably say that this presents various plot holes and problems on its own, given Kishimoto's record and the fact that the flashback in the reveal chapter created all sorts of timeline problems even if you pretend Obito wasn't in it at all.
>> No. 77971
>It had to be an Uchiha whose body was not recovered and confirmed dead

Not strictly true, actually. You don't need to be an Uchiha to have a sharingan. And we know that Tobi had a big stockpile of sharingans lying around.
>> No. 77972
I wrote a big, long post about Obito and Kishimoto and it making sense, but then realized that was distracting from what I really wanted to point out.

Which was that Kishimoto does plan things out. And y'all know he does, because somehow y'all KNEW it would be Obito as Tobi. You can say it was just looking at Kishi's style and guessing from that if you want...but that in itself means Kishi's style serves as a hint or a blueprint toward his choices. So you're going to have to admit that Kishi had made his choice and made it a long time ago if you're prepared to say something like 'The only people who really called it on the merits are the people who just looked at Kishimoto's writing and guessed what he'd do' or 'And the reason why so many people thought Tobi was Obito was because they had become familiar with Kishimoto's "style" with mysterious character reveals'. Even if you're not willing to accept any other possible hint or clue, those statements in themselves mean there was something about Kishimoto's writing/art/whatever, that made Obito a plain choice, at least to some people.

Regarding the latter part of DWM's thing, saying it's a problem if it doesn't make sense...currently, we are not in a position to so boldly claim that it does not make sense. We can say there are time anomalies, certainly...however, that means one of three things to me: That Kishi either had a plan in place already to explain these; or that Kishi, upon noting people were guessing right, came up with a plan later so he could throw some curveballs to make it seem unlikely. The third option is that he's falling over his own pants...but simply jumping straight to option three and disregarding the others when we haven't even got to the to the tragic villain backstory (tm) yet is not only unfair, but makes the claimant look a bit of a twat; hating because it's easy to hate Kishimoto and the many things he legitimately HAS fucked up, like the Deidara bomb, without actually thinking if he has done Great Ill or not this time around. It becomes easy to just dislike every twist if you expect every one of them to be shit.

So really, what's the beef here? Why rag on a man who currently hasn't done anything wrong in this reveal beyond maybe try and throw on-the-ball readers off the scent? And can you at least admit that Kishimoto does, infact, remember stuff?

Oh, and on the subject of characterization, I think you're doing Kishi a massive disservice regarding characters Candlejack, considering that's probably the only reason we're all still reading this (Ooo~ Rock Lee fap fap fap). Kisame just for one wasn't 'stock', unless we're going to start getting really general with our descriptions- There've been plenty enough unique and interesting characters that are separated by their quirks; which makes sense because quirks and little things like motivations are what give a character substance. I mean, there's not a wide range of characters archetypes as-is; no reason to pull Kishimoto up on it when you can pull pretty much everyone up on the same charge.
>> No. 77973
So what your posts basically boil down to is-
-Etc etc

When you write a bad series people will say less than flattering things about it. Thats all there is to it.
>> No. 77974

I'm not exactly his biggest fan, but I'm not about to give him minus-points on things he doesn't deserve them for. More annoying to me is how eager people are to leap on bandwagons both praising an author or reviling them. In those instances every new chapter that comes out is somehow proof of how they've failed and will always fail (or are some Ink Messiah- I'm looking at you fellow One Piece fans), when that's not the case.
>> No. 77977

Kishimoto is not entitled to the benefit of the doubt. That level of trust from the reader is not assumed, it must be earned. To use the example used throughout this thread, when Oda writes something that strikes me as stupid or contradictory, I do reserve judgment until I see where he goes with it. This isn't because I think Oda is some sort of do-no-wrong god, but because history tells me that if I stick with it, I'll be rewarded for my patience. He's earned my trust as a reader with fifteen years of consistent quality.

Kishimoto has not earned that trust. Actually, he's actively earned my distrust, by consistently going with the the stupidest possible route available to him. Assuming the best of Kishimoto is a sucker's bet - remember how many people swore up and down that the Itachi flashback was a lie? That new information would make it less dumb? NOPE, it's only gotten stupider and stupider with time. Remember that time it looked like Naruto would have to accept that Sasuke had gone cartoon-villain on him, and deal with it? NOPE, now Naruto's bound for mutual suicide. Etc. Etc. Assuming that Kishimoto will do something stupid instead of something reasonable is just basic pattern recognition.
>> No. 77978

>Kishimoto has not earned that trust. Actually, he's actively earned my distrust

>> No. 77979
I have to agree. And I usually like the guy getting the legitimate nice girl over the tsundere bitch. I seriously want Hinata to be NTR'd off the dating pool and for Naruto to permanently lose her. I'm not even talking about Naruto "suddenly realizing he has feelings for her" kind of BS because no one would buy that. Simply for Hinata to find another guy and be happy.
>> No. 77980
Whine we shall, but money wasted on this manga? We shall NOT. Anyone else refuse to buy manga even if they enjoy it?
>> No. 77981
What? No. Why would you refuse to pay for it if it's good?
>> No. 77982

I gotta admit, both of those wish-fulfilling examples sound like it'd be even worse edgy-teen bullshit than what actually happened. Naruto's defining character trait is that he has the will and belief to be able to break the cycle of revenge and killing; I don't see how finally 'manning up' and killing Sasuke wouldn't completely undermine that position. Sure, it's annoying that Naruto DOESN'T have an answer (I quite liked Pain's 'nuclear deterrent' plan) but hey, that's no excuse to destroy his character and undermine the main theme of the entire manga.

For me personally, I don't expect Kishimoto to do stuff the way I think he should all the time, because he hasn't. But I'm not going to castrate him over stuff that might still pan out, because he's shown he is capable of doing good stuff- and has actually been on fairly good form recently. It's not a matter of trust for me, it's a matter of not taking it too seriously and hoping for the best. He didn't drop the ball with Kisame at all, and undead Madara's been really fun to read so far, and some of the other undead fights have made for some good reading despite my initial concerns over them...though Naruto being so brokenly powerful (not to mention the whole 'you can be good through hard work not magic genes' shtick being thrown under the bus) is a downer. I'd say he's hit about as much as he's missed.

The problem is that the things he's missed are usually central things, or stuff that's hard to put aside in your mind when considering the series over a number of issues.
>> No. 77983

>Naruto's defining character trait is that he has the will and belief to be able to break the cycle of revenge and killing; I don't see how finally 'manning up' and killing Sasuke wouldn't completely undermine that position.

And promising to die together with Sasuke for no goddamn reason is better? Look, he doesn't have to kill him, but at some point he has to acknowledge that his stupid fantasy of bringing Sasuke back to the village and everyone welcoming him with open arms and everything going back to the way things were is never going to happen. And he sort of did that I guess, but then he went full retard on it. And no, basically nothing could be worse than the plot tumor the Itachi flashback has turned into.

>Kisame was good

Kisame was the only bright spot in years. And he lasted like three chapters.
>> No. 77984

I don't know, Mifune vs. Hanzo was pretty amazing, short as it was.
>> No. 77987

Eh. I know a bunch of you here liked that, but I wasn't big on it. Better than what was happening around it, pretty meh in comparison.
>> No. 77988

...and by 'in comparison' I mean 'on its own terms'.
>> No. 77990
File 134738632296.png - (291.00KB , 916x1300 , 1347381194575.png )
Why is the the current crop of Hokage's so weak?

What happened to newer generations surpassing those who went before them?
>> No. 77991
File 134738649649.png - (1.68MB , 1456x2174 , 1347383503877.png )
>> No. 77992
Doesn't apply to Uchihas.
Or anybody by this point, really.
>> No. 77993
Yeah, wasn't the 1st Leaf Hokage now meant to be THE ultimate badass (Apart from the Sage who introduced ninjutsu to the world of course) that even the most overpowered sharingan-techniques can't defeat, with his unique treegrowing power and regeneration techniques far superior to Tsunades?

He must have been holding back ALOT when he was summoned by Orochimaru to fight the Third alongside the Second.
Well, either that or Kishimato has lost all control of the power levels in his shounen action series.
>> No. 77994
Nah, he got caught off-guard and had his soul condemned to oblivion.
This is why the kages are failing; none of them have the guts to condemn their own souls to oblivion.
>> No. 77995

That's never been how things worked in Naruto. Oh, they pay lip service to it, but when the rubber hits the road the best you can ever hope to be is a made-in-hong-kong version of your parents, teachers, or both.
>> No. 77996
File 134738991232.jpg - (143.38KB , 900x653 , 1347385903855.jpg )
>> No. 77997
I approve of this!
>> No. 78008
This is the best of the best.
>> No. 78019
Wait so this is Bleach now?
>> No. 78025
not unless a sharingan user flash-steps behind someone's back and cuts them down with a single strike

and not unless someone is essentially cut in half and then revived later

and not unless they remove all personality in time for people to fight with what could have been an interesting rival

and not unless backgrounds were forcibly removed to make way for speed lines

and not unless naruto is trapped just outside of nameksico
>> No. 78026
Wasn't Tsunade crushed in half and revived?
>> No. 78027
Aaaaand let's not forget what happened to half of Obito's body.
>> No. 78031
nah its cool brah, Obito is just SHARINGAN GHOST-ZOMBIE!
>> No. 78043
Is it just a phrasing that got lost in translation, or is it kind of funny that Oonoki crows about the five kage that "stand together", when he's floating in the air like the pompous douche he is?

(Also, if he was strong enough [through whatever handwave mass/gravity-manipulation jutsu] to carry the entire freaking turtle-island on one hand WHILE FLYING, what was stopping him from throwing entire mountains at whomever they're fighting? Did he try that strategy and I just forgot? Why didn't he just change the enemy's mass to close to zero and then let them float helplessly into the upper atmosphere? I think that would have been hilarious. Zombie balloons!)
>> No. 78044
Madara would simply look at the falling island/the fundamental force of gravity and it would know not to fuck with him like that, or he'd reveal a new ability of the Sharingan.
>> No. 78045
The zombies seemed kind of stupidly overpowered... all the skills/abilities of the ninja while alive + Regenerating even if blown to ashes? + Unlimited Chakra that comes from nowhere? What the hell man.
You'd think there'd be alot more dead ninjas on the hero side when the zombies have all those advantages, they could just use suicide bomb or nuke technique after nuke after nuke.
>> No. 78046
if the zombies had downtime between regenerations that would be a different story.
>> No. 78056

Madara is a one-man Chuck Norris joke.


I always hated the "chakra out of nowhere" bit. It didn't make any sense where the energy (in the most basic sense) was coming from. With a living person, it's a combination of some kind of "spiritual" energy and basic calories, and it would eventually run out. I suppose that the souls do have spiritual energy just the same, but their bodies are made of dust and crap that forms around the sacrifice body. Really, I think it should be the reverse. The zombie should be able to use the powers of the BODY, while having any soul be the "sacrifice" to power it. It makes no sense that the "soul" somehow remembers how to do stuff like curse seals and bloodline limits when it's an intangible entity; but the dead body would be able to do all the stuff it had previously done. And either way, they still shouldn't have unlimited power unless that power is coming from somewhere else.

Which, actually, I kind of suspect! Something like a power from the Earth itself (like in FullMetal Alchemist) which is also where the sharingan also gets all its hax abilities. I'm giving Kishimoto the benefit of the doubt of actually coming up with something like this, something that would explain a great deal of unexplained "power from nowhere" instead of just handwaving it all. For example, sharingans seem to be able to be used all the time without any chakra drain... except for Kakashi's. Itachi went around using his all the damn time. Sasuke has several times (most notably in the end of the battle with Deidara) gotten chakra from nowhere. If the sharingan (and probably rinnegan, possibly byakugan) were somehow able to tap into this natural, exterior energy source, it would actually explain why it is so damn hax, why it's able to defy logical chakra limits.


The zombies DID have downtime. Whenever they were seriously damaged, they would take a few moments to regenerate, during which time they were motionless and could be sealed up with those weird mummy seals.

Wait... you have to do critical damage... and then you can capture them. Holy shit. THE RESURRECTED NINJA ARE POKEMON!
>> No. 78060
You'd think if the sacrificial bodies were destroyed utterly that would finish off one of the zombies. It would mean they could continue to operate with horrific damage since they aren't 'alive' but no coming back from being completly disintegrated.
>> No. 78062
>Something like a power from the Earth itself

They have that. It's called nature chakra. It's what Naruto (and presumably Kabuto) use to use sage mode. It is a totally different thing and operates on totally different rules. And it turns you into an animal.
>> No. 78063

No, not from the plants and animals; I meant the Earth itself. Magnetic fields, plate tectonics, stuff like that. Something a lot DEEPER than that silly Sage Mode which doesn't do anything that: A) Naruto can't do on his own using Kyuubi chakra or his own natural chutzpah as the Main Character. B) Sasuke or any other Uchiha can't do with the power of sharingan hax. C) The zombies can't do with their mysterious infinite chakra.

Basically, Sage Mode was a failed experiment in the course of the manga, and ended up being discarded as quickly as possible. You'd THINK that an energy source from the entire planet's gaia would trump an energy source from a single person or a single tailed beast... but no dice. I mean, in its debut appearance, Jiraiya vs. Pain, it LOST. That's not a good start for something that's supposed to be the protagonist's ultimate power. It would be as if Vegeta was the first to turn Super Saiyan, and was still killed by Frieza, and then Goku also did it... and we're expecting him to do better. Naruto has already SURPASSED it by two more transformations. It's done with, and Kishimoto probably wants us all to forget it, so this would have to be something else entirely.
>> No. 78067
Phrasing it that way it reminds me of Naruto's whole training nonsense in regards to the Timeskip.

He spends years on a training journey, and yet soon after the timeskip he needs to go off on ANOTHER training trip with Kakashi because it turns out Jiraiya didn't teach him much of anything at all.
Its not like I'm asking him to have learned a hundred super techniques, but if he'd just demonstrated something basic like Naruto had become able to form a basic Rasengan without using clones or something.

What really irked me about the Kakshi training in particular was the sudden addition of 'Chakra types' which sounds like an incredibly basic concept that had never even been hinted at before.
Even if it wasn't taught to Genin's at the acadamy you'd think at the very least Jiraiya would have mentioned it and tested Naruto with one of those special bits of paper to better plan out training him to be able to play on his strengths.
With the reveal that in this all new system Wind beats Lightning but strengthens Fire it actually seemed like it was introduced SOLELY so Naruto could get philosophical about beating the 'bad' part of Sasuke and breathing life into the 'good' part.
>> No. 78088
I wish Onoki didn't make all those inspirational speeches, cuz this is just anti-climactic.

How do you get cut in half by a giant branch?
>> No. 78089

Sage mode wasn't abandoned as an idea or power-up, considering that Kabuto used it himself to great effect.
>> No. 78110

You mean the Sage Mode that bore absolutely no resemblance to what Naruto and Jiraiya did, and instead seemed to have a lot more to do with the fact that Kabutochimaru was 95% snake? I mean, honestly, if he hadn't gone right out and SAID it was Sage Mode to Itachi and Sasuke, could you have guessed it? Because I know I couldn't have.

(And need I mention, this version of SM failed in its debut appearance, too.)

Don't get me wrong, Kabuto's entire backstory and everything related to that fight was actually a highlight of the series in an arc otherwise full of disappointment; the artwork was great, too. But I don't understand why it was made so much effort to connect Kabuto's snakey abilities to Sage Mode, when it wasn't anything like what we had seen before. It's not as if there has never been another time when a person got a power upgrade without a reasonable explanation.
>> No. 78119
Jiraiya's version of sage mode gave him some frog features, so I wasn't all that surprised.

For some reason, Kabuto didn't retain much of his human features, but I take that as his choice. All it does is make me wonder if Naruto has the ability to do frog stuff (like Mario in the frog suit in SMB3). WOOHOO
>> No. 78121
Any animal sage probably has their own sage mode.
>> No. 78131
This is what I was thinking.
>> No. 78135
File 134768938194.png - (1.14MB , 929x934 , Sage_of_White_Snakes.png )
Uh, isn't this basically stated to be the case?
Naruto and his teacher learned it from the frogs, they become more frog-like when they use it, Kabuto learned it from the Pimp-Snake, ergo....
>> No. 78140

Suddenly, ABSOLUTELY EVERYONE gets an off-panel Sage Mode upgrade as long as they're associated with an animal. Sasuke gets Hawk Sage. Tsunade (maybe Sakura) gets Slug Sage. Gaara gets Tanuki Sage (lol, Mario Tanuki suit!). OhgodwhatthefuckhaveIdone?!

Also, I guess this can have the entire deal make a little more sense. Perhaps each specific Sage Mode only draws on the chakra from that SPECIFIC species (err, family rather) instead of the entire planet. So Naruto and Jiraiya were only sucking chakra from all the toads all over the world, which explains why they would develop toad-like features if they did it wrong. Just like Naruto drawing on the Kyuubi chakra made the Kyuubi draw on his, it might work both ways for this as well. It also explains the limits. Drawing energy from the entire planet may be a LOT, but if it's only from a very small <0.1% of the world's biomass (whether toads or snakes) — which, being non-human, do not have much chakra individually — it wouldn't add up to much at all.

I highly doubt Kishimoto came up with this rather than just handwaving the whole deal... but props if he did, because it actually makes good sense looked at this way.
>> No. 78141
File 134769824159.png?spoiler - (225.12KB , 900x600 , Slug.png?spoiler )
>>Tsunade (maybe Sakura) gets Slug Sage

...slug girls?
>> No. 78153
File 134775139145.png - (266.36KB , 840x547 , Picture 3.png )
I really like Tenten now that she has a legit personality.
>> No. 78154
File 134775288942.png - (362.54KB , 894x1300 , 0b554477e4760e468831e9ca3b942928.png )
I guess you could say Neji didn't see that coming YEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
>> No. 78175

Also, I find OP's pic quite disturbing.
>> No. 78178

Kakashi/Naruto fanservice... freaking everywhere.

Not that I — personally — am complaining; but it was still unexpected.
>> No. 78201
It's freaking me out a little too.
>> No. 78219
>Obito and Madara
>Their first conversation begins with Obito subtly asking Madara if he wants a handjob...?

Well, I guess Obito was still Obito, at least for a little while. Oh, but this is great! It turns out that there is yet ANOTHER man behind the man. Madara was manipulating Obito who was manipulating Pain who was manipulating the whole of Akatsuki... except for Itachi who may well have been manipulating THEM ALL. Pfft.

This backstory really works, though. Hashirama is an impossible badass, and fusing Senju with Uchiha is a one-way-trip to godliness. So it makes sense that a loser 12-year-old could stand toe-to-toe with the Fourth shortly after getting half his body replaced with Hasirama's flesh/chakra.

(It still doesn't explain why he was apparently adult-sized at age 14... but whatever.)
>> No. 78239
With the infinite number of insta-win techniques the fully-evolved Sharingan gives you, how can anyone else compare?

And if Hashirama is such a god-like badass who's stronger than basically every modern ninja put thogether you'd think when he was brought out to fight the 3rd hokage he would have had a more impressive showing.
>> No. 78280
File 134829467185.png - (129.70KB , 800x600 , 48119668d32d1cda4239d5841b069b27.png )
I'm honestly regretting it. I'd just like to say though, if we have to make another of these topics soon, I'm hoping the first post will be some quality Breast Hammer fanart.

I swear, Rock Lee's Springtime of Youth is pretty much everything I could have ever wanted out of a Naruto manga. Even putting aside the lampooning of its source material (pretty excellently, I might add), it's been taking jutsu to their logical (and comical) conclusions, giving us the character building we've wanted from certain characters as well as closure for their assorted arcs, and has just been fun all around. And anything that gives Tenten some spotlight is a-ok in my book.
>> No. 78285
The only way to salvage the not Spring time of Youth version is to have this guy show up who has a power that only defeats Sharingan. Like literally, all it can do is cancel out or fuck over anything a eye swirl does. And as soon as that person is done they just walk out into the sunset - for there is always someone who figures out a way to out ninja and kill your technique the more famous it becomes.
>> No. 78301
Even better. Make it a final power of the byakugan. Cancel doujutsus.
>> No. 78305
>Byakugan can cancel doujutsu.

Neji attempts to use it in Springtime of Youth... accidentally cancels his own byakugan. Hilarity ensues.

But seriously, SO MUCH effort and plot has been put into the Sharingan, that having something just up and stop it besides another Sharingan is pretty much impossible. At this point, it's literally become the most important, most developed thing in the entire Naruto universe. So just brushing it aside — even if that would be for the best — is not going to happen; no author would do that over something he's spent so much time on.

But that's okay, because Naruto can defeat anything with the power of Main Character. Having Kurama on his side means he's now immune to any genjutsu, and he's badass enough on his own to handle the ninjutsu aspects of the Sharingan. I'm waiting for Madara to attempt to drop another meteor on Naruto, only to have him blow it to a rain of fine gravel with a bijuudama or something, a "Please take me seriously" look on his face.
>> No. 78306
That's why it has to be a complete non entity. Someone that we have no way to tell who they are, if they are hard working or super bullshit bloodline, possibly even male or female. A complete deus ex bitch slap to the Sharingan that the author can't defuse. No explanation of the attack or anything, just someone trained to kill Doctor Snakes doing their job.
>> No. 78379
Well then, looks like Kishi's gone and explained why it seemed Obito had an adult body when only being 14.

But don't worry folks, you've still got a lot of things to complain about. Don't feel disheartened.
>> No. 78380
obito proving the joker right since he was babby
>> No. 78385
So if the white zetsu are all just extensions of the Gedo Mazou (somehow) and also infused with Hashirama's flesh/charka (somehow) what in the world is black zetsu? Just another dude that fused to the white stuff until he started to resemble it?

I get the feeling that he has a larger part to play in all this, seeing how he is basically the only member of Akatsuki NOT DEAD besides Tobito.

Also, despite what he may have been talking about and being on his side, Obito most certainly DOES NOT want the same thing as Madara wants (IE the Moon's Eye Plan) or at least not exactly. It just makes no sense. He was shocked and upset when Kabuto revealed that he had found Madara's body, which indicates that he did not want Madara revived in the first place. Also, he immediately started the "process" as soon as he found out that the Edo Tensei was undone, and assuming that Madara had gone away.

Perhaps he might be doing the same thing, but wanted control over Instrumentality -excuse me, The Moon's Eye Plan- because his reasons are different from Madara's, or possible he just want to be in control of ALL REALITY, rather than let someone else be in control, in a typical "I'm the real villain, here" way.

Or maybe he's just setting us all up for an epic heel-face-turn by betraying Madara and handing control of Instrum- damnit, the Moon's Eye Plan to Shinji, I mean Naruto, to decide whether humanity will live in an illusionary happiness or retain their original lives.

Which wouldn't be too bad, I guess.
>> No. 78408

Have Hinata using it and we have a deal.
>> No. 78493
Has that movie with the slutty hinata and friendly sasuke came out yet?
>> No. 78495
File 134921239657.png?spoiler - (444.88KB , 1749x1300 , 60703a5a7df9a3e1b675ebf546bbb59f.png?spoiler )
Okay, I'll admit, I didn't see this coming.
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