>First one:
Eh, that's not so bad.
>Dubstep one:
Excuse me, I need to go gouge out my ears with a Lance of Longinus...

(I prefer the original.)

KOMM SUSSER TODD INDEED
That second fucking version makes me want to start the Third Impact.

I really hope these don't end up getting used in Rebuild 3 or 4.

blech.

And further, I don't think I shall ever understand Dubstep's appeal.

>>73343

Regardless, I would hardly call three ringing notes "dubstep."

This thread does seem like a good chance to discuss Eva,

>>73362
My favorite part was when Shinji whined.

Eva thread? I can dig it.

So, the Rebuild movies. Your opinions on them?

I like them so far, though I hate that Asuka has barely any presence. I know they've been criticized for not having the same vibe as the original NGE, but it's important to remember that the first half of the original series was basically all action as well. I'm expecting 3.0 and 4.0 to dive deep into the psychedelic trip factor that was in the later half of the series.

>>73379

I don't like them just as standalone movies (except for the awesome soundtrack) but they're a nice supplement to the anime series. I think of them as being the high-budget, WTF-inducing, visual tour-de-force that the series would have been had they had much of a budget at all and modern CGI. Otherwise, they're rushed and not nearly as deeply satisfying as watching the series.

It's like a sweet, delicious dessert after a filling dinner. Kaworu can be the cherry on top.

I think it's getting a little better, though, since 3.0 and 4.0 promise to be pretty much completely original storylinesn after things went from predictable to totally-off-the-rails in 2.0. (And I'm pretty sure it's all somehow a weird "sequel" to the series and End, also.)

>>73390

Someone post that "Rebuild is actually a sequel to EoE" image for this.

I'm re-watching the original series right now, and I can't believe how many great little moments I've completely forgotten about. The details are really what makes this show so good.

pic related, I thought this whole moment with Kensuke looked really pretty.

>>73393
Is there still anyone who DOESN'T think the Rebuild movies are some kind of sequel? How?

>>73395

That too. I REALLY miss the character development for Ritsuko, Kensuke, Touji (who doesn't even get to pilot this time around), Hikari, Fuyutsuki, and the Three Stooges in the NERV HQ (Aoba, Hyuuga, Maya). It made it seem a lot less than the entire world is revolving around Shinji and whatever he does.

Then again... supposing this IS a sequel (and Kaworu is going around willfully violating this rebooted-universe's fourth-wall) perhaps it literally IS constructed completely around — and for the benefit of — one Shinji Ikari. For all we know, this entire thing might be going on in his own mind as he tries to (subconsciously) figure out just where the heck he went wrong in his time piloting the Evas, and what he could have done differently to prevent the End of The World. Naturally, this being Shinji (and a Gainax production...) all his efforts have been making things WORSE, but still.

>>73417
>That too. I REALLY miss the character development for Ritsuko, Kensuke, Touji (who doesn't even get to pilot this time around), Hikari, Fuyutsuki, and the Three Stooges in the NERV HQ (Aoba, Hyuuga, Maya).

Just another reason Rebuild needs to be taken as a supplement instead of a stand alone series. We already know those characters so it isn't TOO big of a deal, but someone who only watches Rebuild is missing out on a lot.

And hey, did it really bug anyone else that Kensuke basically disappears from the show after Touji is hospitalized? It felt like that would have been the time to focus on him the most what with everything that happened to his friends, but I don't think we ever even see him after that. I'm not saying they should have dedicated an episode to him or anything, but just a proper send off and some closure would have been nice.

>>73393
Here you go.

>>73428
So is the theory that not only is the story some kind of Endless Eight thing, but that Kaworu is always the previous cycle's Shinji still a thing?

>Kaworu is always the previous cycle's Shinji

I have never heard this before.

. . . It sounds like a really stupid theory.

>>73379
I like that all the characters are a re-imagining; familiar but different. I especially like that Shinji reacts to certain situations differently, like getting angry and threatening to kick NERV HQ into dust after the Bardiel fight, or choosing to fight Zeruel to save the girl he loves rather than to save everyone. Even Misato shouts "Do it for yourself, not for anyone else!"

The battle are spectacular. Skipping "Both of You, Dance Like You Want to Win" makes me sad. The sexual fanservice is annoying but ignorable. I'm pretty hyped for the next two movies.

>>73430
I think it was based on Kaworu calling Gendo "Father." Also the attached image, which may be reaching but no more so than the other stuff I guess.

>>73379
That scene with naked Asuka is the randomest thing about the movie.

Everything else is pretty good.

>>73430
It is a stupid theory, but then Eva's a breeding ground for DEEPfag bullshit like that. Nobody can every accept it's just another dumb robot show with ANGST on top.

>>73437
Man, don't be an asshole. Coming up with theories about what's happening doesn't mean anyone thinks it's deep, it just means some people think it's fun to try and guess plot twists ahead of time. People did the same thing for Harry Potter for crissakes.

The fact that it is just another dumb super robot show doesn't mean there is not a plot about which you can make guesses as to how it will turn out.

>>73435
Huh, that's a bit of detail I missed. That's interesting.

>>73435

Very interesting. I thought that there was something different going on with the Evas this time around. Seeing how it seems anyone can sync with any Eva, I suspected they might not certain person's mother's souls in them. Otherwise, there would be no way in hell Mari could have synced with Unit 02; the only reason Kaworu could in the series was because he was hax due to being an angel.

Following End, however, Unit 01 (the original...) was left floating adrift out of the solar system along with the original Lance of Longinus. Supposing it was somehow retrieved and brought back along with the lance (which was shown being moved on the moonbase, and later spearing Shinji and Rei in mid-deification) does that mean that Yui's soul is still in the dang thing? Sheesh.

Also would explain why Shinji is the one who went "berserk" against Zeruel. Mommy wasn't in there to do it for him, this time.

>>73441
>>73442
If Rebuild Kaworu is Shinji from the past iteration, why can't Mari be old Asuka? It would explain her ability to pilot 02.

In my headcanon, the original NGE series and EoE is Ocarina of Time and the Rebuild movies are Majora's Mask.

>>73446
That actually makes a pretty good amount of sense.

It also makes me want to see the creepy moon face photoshopped onto Rei for some reason.

>>73447
HA! Someone do it now!

>>73428
I have to say, this is convincing. Mostly the new second impact imagery wich independently it could be just a new aestethic choice but togheter, it raises questions.

One thing that I did noticed is what it seems a pretty big new thing in the plot.
In both 1.0 and 2.0 a lot of characters continue to mention that there is some sort of deal/contract/promise that was done with Lilith herself, I think at least Seele, Gendo an Misato said it and remember that in the end of 1.0 it seems everyone knows Lilith is held bellow Nerv, instead of being fooled into thinking its Adam or just don't know.

And in 1.0 Gendo and Fuyutsuki say that a literal part of their plan is to get Shinji to become 'closer' with Rei, next thing that happens is Shinji is commisioned to give Rei her new ID. And you know whose soul is inside her.

>Gendo and Fuyutsuki say that a literal part of their plan is to get Shinji to become 'closer' with Rei.

That's weird. In End, the reason Rei went and hijacked Instrumentality from Gendo's control (taking Adam and his hand and not allowing him to see Yui) was because she had gotten close to Shinji and had gained a semblance of independance. I would think that what they would want the most is to keep her an emotionless doll that follows orders without question.

>>73463
Things are different this time around. I'd go so far as to say we can't really assume that anything from the original is true that hasn't been stated as true in Rebuild yet.

HEY GUYS! TALKIN BOUT EVA?
HOW ABOUT ONE OF MY FAVORITE DOUJIN OF ALL TIME?

Re-Take of Evangelion

Shinji wakes up in the hospital after the Dirac Sea thing but with the memories of the events of the rest of the series and End. He decides to change things. Shit of course goes nuts.

It was orignially an H doujin but they compiled the several parts (1,2,3,0,4,After) into 3 clean vollumes

http://g.e-hentai.org/g/168983/6804adbfc2/
http://g.e-hentai.org/g/168986/4232a35943/
http://g.e-hentai.org/g/168987/e3fbed9cf1/?p=9

Again, despite the name of the site, this version is clean.

>>73488
I can link you guys the "unclean" ones from fakku if you want.
Also High5!

>>73491
Really its not worth it in my opinion. Kinda Type-Moonish in its usage of sex. Basically it was there to make it more popular. Although them having sex it critical to the story.

On the other hand, sex in one of Studio Kimabuchi's other works, Negimaru, is very important. And also terrifying. Very terrifying.

The theory that somehow the'res a cycle in Evangelion that keeps repeating is silly when you consider the larger backstory given, in which Angels and humans are just the products of hyper advanced aliens, and can be found on a bajillion planets.
Thus it stands to reason time manipulation is not within their power or the universe would be fucked.
Though it could be a dream/illusion Shiji is experiencing.

>>73539
Ugh, seriously? Aliens?

I'm not sure why I'm surprised though, Eva was always awful with backstory, setting, and plot. Great handling of character, mood, and atmosphere, but everything else is just kinda fuzzy.

I mean, 90% of the main plot just consists of buzzwords: SEELE, Instrumentality, S2 engine, AT field, Adam, Lilith, etc... The show does a terrible job of explaining why these things are important and what's at stake, so the viewer is just confused at important moments.

>>73541
Aliens or gods, depending how you want to look at it. Under the surface Eva's sort of a Cosmic Horror story.

>>73542
I agree, giant Rei was Cosmic, and Horrifying.

But I'm still not sold on the aliens. When you have things called Angels and Lilim that sprang from Adam and Lilith, you're already connecting the story to Bible myth. I mean, why bring aliens into it at all?

And that's not even that bad, I can appreciate that they were trying to make things clearer by saying "aliens did it." At least it's a (crappy) explanation.

The problem is that there didn't seem to be any rules to the world. Why the fuck is Shinji so special? The Angels had to be stopped from getting into Terminal Dogma, or the world would end... How? Why the hell did SEELE want instrumentality to happen (I get why Gendo wanted it-like I said, Eva is good with character.)? Why the deception with Adam/Lilith? How the hell did Gendo have a little Adam fetus in his hand at the end? Why was the Lance important? How did SEELE make copies of it? Why did the MP Eva's stab themselves? What's an AT field?

The viewer should know SOMETHING about the "how" and "why" of the story, enough so that he can intuitively understand the consequences of a character's action. Otherwise, there's no tension, only confusion.

And if you have to tell fans "aliens did it," and don't even put that information into the actual show, then something has gone wrong.

>>73543

I'll try to answer some of these with how I see it.

>Why the fuck is Shinji so special?
His mother is inside Unit 01, which is the only unit which can merge with Lilith and begin Instrumentality.


>The Angels had to be stopped from getting into Terminal Dogma, or the world would end... How?
An angel merging with Lilith (who is housed in Terminal Dogma) would also cause Third Impact.


>Why the hell did SEELE want instrumentality to happen ... ?
Basically, they want to uplift humanity into perfection by causing all souls to merge into one consciousness so there is no more pain.


>Why the deception with Adam/Lilith?
Not sure, but I think it had something to do with the fact that most of the characters (and the audience) thought it WAS Adam. It wasn't until Kaworu went down there and said, "Hey, what gives?" that everyone finds out otherwise.


>How the hell did Gendo have a little Adam fetus in his hand at the end?
I think it was in the director's cut of episode (I can't remember the number). After blowing himself up in Second Impact, Adam was reduced to an embryo, and Kaji stole it and delivered it to Gendo so he could be in control of Instrumentality. Kaji was on board the aircraft carrier along with Unit 02 with it when the angel attacked, which was WHY the angel attacked — it was drawn to Adam.


>Why was the Lance important?
I think it was an original artifact left behind along with Adam and the Geofront. The stupid humans poked Adam with it repeatedly until he got pissed off and went kaboom. It is necessary to start Third Impact in a similar way.


>How did SEELE make copies of it?
I have no idea, but I suspect hax was involved. (They were imperfect copies, anyway.)


>Why did the MP Eva's stab themselves?
A more important question is why did they have orgasms while doing it... (Probably as some kind of sacrament; not sure on the Christian symbolism thereof.)


>What's an AT field?
I thought of it as twofold. First is as a representation of the Ego Barrier in the mind, which is what keeps a person himself. The more common usage in the series is as a physical manifestation of an energy which literally holds living beings together, like a metaphysical balloon around water. When the AT Field goes away, the body pops into Tang.


Keep in mind, the first time I watched End, I had no idea what the heck was going on. It was like a vaguely pleasent acid-trip after about halfway through. It wasn't until I read the Red Cross Book and some other supplementary materials that I was able to start making sense of what was going on.

However, it's a very loose and indeterminate plotline, filled with tiny tidbits of information that make you think, but which do not tell you HOW to think. I firmly believe that this is intentional (rather than due to laziness) to allow each individual to come up for himself what the MEANING of it all is.

>>73543
>The problem is that there didn't seem to be any rules to the world. Why the fuck is Shinji so special? The Angels had to be stopped from getting into Terminal Dogma, or the world would end... How? Why the hell did SEELE want instrumentality to happen (I get why Gendo wanted it-like I said, Eva is good with character.)? Why the deception with Adam/Lilith? How the hell did Gendo have a little Adam fetus in his hand at the end? Why was the Lance important? How did SEELE make copies of it? Why did the MP Eva's stab themselves? What's an AT field?

Keep in mind this is all from memory and I might be hazy on some of it, but in essence:

Shinji wasn't really special in and of himself so much as because he was connected to the most important players in the chess game--Gendo and Yui Ikari, and he and Rei were the most important pawns in said game. Yui's mothering instinct made his Eva more protective of him than Asuka's was of her, and when Eva-01 got the S2 engine, it basically became an Angel in and of itself.

The reason they couldn't let the angels get into Terminal Dogma was because that's where they were keeping Lillith and Adam, and with access to those, the Angels would set off Instrumentality--but instead of Human Instrumentality, it would've been Angel Instrumentality. Humans and Angels are essentially the same thing, both having descended from the halves of the Godhead that all of local life was combined into before it got split by the Lance of Longinus. Which were, as I recall, essentially Adam and Lillith. Angels descended from one, Humans from the other. Which is why humanity (all of humanity) was considered one of the Angels in and of itself.

Most of the world did not want Instrumentality, since it's essentially the apocalypse. SEELE wanted Instrumentality because 1.) it was essentially seen to be unavoidable--the only question was whether it would be Angels or Humans who got Instrumental 2.) they thought they could become gods by doing it. Publicly, and as far as most of NERV was concerned, they were attempting to prevent apocalypse. Privately, SEELE was trying to bring about the "good" apocalypse.

For the Adam fetus, I'm pretty sure they were attempting to clone Adam from the bit of him that Kaji retrieved for him when Asuka joined.

The Lance was a weapon that could pierce anything. It comes from the legends of the Spear of Destiny that was used to pierce Jesus on the cross, as wielded by the Roman soldier Longinus--actually, it and Keel being the Wandering Jew are the only genuinely Christian things I recall from Eva, since the vast majority of it is more kaballistic or gnostic than Christian.

AT Fields are essentially the manifestation of the Porcupine's Dilemma--they're the fear of intimacy with others that stops people from ever getting too close to one another. With Angels (and Eva) they can be manipulated and used to form force fields. With humans they're all that keeps all of humanity from merging into a giant blob of LCL.

Man, Eva is full of stuff. I don't know if it should be called symbolism since it doesn't seem to symbolize anything, and most of it seems superfluous to the story itself....I guess you could call it world building?

>>73543

>why is Shinji so special?

His mom's soul was absorbed into Eva unit 01, which is why only he can pilot it. Everything about Shinji's role stems from that, which is what makes Mari from the Rebuilds so interesting. She piloted unit 02, and if they're sticking to their own internal lore, that means she's either an angel or yet another Yui clone.

>Angels in Terminal Dogma would end the world...how?

Angels merging with Lillith would trigger the Third Impact, but in their own image, which means wiping out all life derived from Lillith (i.e., mass extinction of all human life, not the tang kind).

>SEELE

This one still confuses me. SEELE's primary goal was the Human Instrumentality project, to erase the barriers between people and end lonliness etc etc. This is pretty much referring to Third Impact, so I'm not sure why they spent so much time, effort, and money on the Eva projects instead of just letting Gendo do his hand thing with Adam.

>why was the Lance important?

The Lance of Longinus is the only weapon that can pierce A.T. fields. I am unsure as to whether or not it is conscious, EoE pretty much confused the shit out of me about it.

>why did the MP Evas stab themselves?

Piercing their cores = dying = releasing their energy to trigger the Third Impact. They made this way more apparent in the Rebuild movies, if you haven't checked those out yet.

>What's an A.T. field?

Anti-Terror field. Plot-wise? It's the projected consciousness of the user in the form of a shield that can only be penetrated by an other's A.T. field. Backdrop speculation? Anno was really into Freud while drumming this up, and if you go through Freud's literature he talks a lot about how our interaction with the physical world and emotional word are actually disconnected and independent. So basically, whenever one of the kids is in an Eva and powers it on, they separate onto some planar dimension where the physical and emotional whatever shit collide and their A.T. fields protect them from whatever or something. So all that hype about Asuka being mindraped? They did the same thing to the angels every time they pierced an A.T. field.

>backstory, Ancestral Race alien thing

I don't know where this comes from. I've seen all the TV episodes, EoE, and both rebuilds. Is it from a comic or book or something? People speak of this like it is canon but I've never seen or heard of it directly.

>>73548
I think it's from some info book, like how a lot of Nasuverse lore is from Character Material/Zero Material/Etc.

>>73548
>>73547
>>73546
Good explanations, which can all be gleaned from viewing the show multiple times. They purposely paced the story so you can go back an episode or two, re-view a scene that didn't make sense at the time and figure out what's going on with new info. Also: No, I don't think the anime ever mentions aliens. I have no idea where that came from. Asuka and Shinji even talk about why Angels, messengers of God, would be attacking them in one episode.

According to wiki, it's from one of the games, NGE2.

Note: A.T. Field = Absolute Terror Field, my bad.

Right, original guy with all the questions here.

They were mostly rhetorical, I knew most of that stuff before posting those questions. Although, damn, you guys know a lot. Thanks!

But when I watched the series for the first time, I knew almost none of it until I started researching on the internet. The problem isn't that there are no answers. The problem is that the answers aren't presented in a way that's helpful to the story.

I'm not sure I knew that Shinji's mom was Unit 1. Asuka's mom being Unit 2 I got in EoE.

I didn't know anything about the Lance other than "it can pierce stuff and kill angels and shit."

Until EoE I only knew AT fields as the cool force fields that Angels and Evas fight with. I think the explanation about their true nature was thrown into the narration somewhere when everybody was being turned into Tang.

I knew Instrumentality was bad or maybe good, inevitable or maybe not, and that various people wanted to control it.

I knew Rei was a clone, but not why she was so important. I'm actually still confused about why Rei gave control of Instrumentality to Shinji when that version wasn't close to him. The Rei that was killed by the Angel was friends with Shinji, the new one didn't have that connection.



Anyway, it doesn't seem like good storytelling (at least to me) to still be giving exposition about the nature of Instrumentality as it's happening. It's supposed to be the climax, the most important moment for Shinji, Asuka, and Rei. But it can't illuminate their characters if we don't know what the fuck is happening. When Shinji makes the choice to stay on that beach with Asuka, and accept pain and individuality, the moment should be powerfully cathartic. We should want to clap and say "congratulations!" But the only thing going through my mind was "?????????????????"

>>73558

It most definitely does not lend itself to standard plot development, that's for sure.

>>73558
>>73550
>They purposely paced the story so you can go back an episode or two, re-view a scene that didn't make sense at the time and figure out what's going on with new info.

The plot is purposely opaque. If it were unintentional, it would definitely be bad storytelling; for most stories, conveyance is a top priority because confusion is offputting. In NGE's case though, they WANTED the audience to be confused for a time. Whether or not it served NGE's story well to do that is debatable. I personally think they overdid it. It could have worked much better with less obfuscation.

I know it doesn't seem like it, because I spent a lot of time saying the plot sucks, but I really like the show; the characters are fascinating.

I just wish the story was better structured to support the character arcs.

>>73558

>I'm not sure I knew that Shinji's mom was Unit 1.

That wasn't said directly, but it was so heavily implied that you'd have to be trying very hard to miss it. Especially when Shinji says stuff like the cockpit smells like blood but it feels comforting; he literally met (or possibly hallucinated) his mother embracing him just as life support gave out while he was inside Leliel; and Yui was stated to have disappeared in an experiment with Unit 01.


>Until EoE I only knew AT fields as the cool force fields that Angels and Evas fight with. I think the explanation about their true nature was thrown into the narration somewhere when everybody was being turned into Tang.

If I remember correctly, when Shinji was fighting Kaworu and Unit 02 while going down to Terminal Dogma, his knife slipped and was stopped by Kaworu's AT Field. Kaworu referred to it as "the light of his soul", and something like "the sacred space where no one else can enter", which was vague as hell, but at least hinted at it being something more than a magical force-field and something both rooted in psychology and something which everyone posessed to some degree.


>When Shinji makes the choice to stay on that beach with Asuka, and accept pain and individuality, the moment should be powerfully cathartic.

At that point, I was kinda with Asuka: "How disgusting..." I wasn't sure exactly what to expect (considering the last two episodes of the series!) or what I should have been expecting given the rest of the movie, but it wasn't either at ALL. With End, there isn't so much of a conclusion as an ending, if you get what I mean. I never feel any sort of catharsis or satisfaction; at most I feel uncomfortable and upset, left with more questions than answers, and really REALLY wishing I had someone to hold me... which might be what I'm supposed to feel (in which case it's brilliantly well-done to be able to manipulate my emotions and turn me into a depressed, antsy Shinji) but I'm not sure.

>>73561
To be perfectly honest, I agree.

Eva is my favorite show. I love the characters for being so well done. I love how great the show is at cinematography and framing. I love how trippy and surreal some parts of the show are. I love how SOME of the symbolism actually is pretty damn deep. I REALLY LOVE the introspective moments when we see inside of a character's mind to find out about what their issues are.

But the way the plot is explained? Pretty bad. I think the fact that you can't find all necessary information in the show itself, and that you need to play a game THAT WAS NEVER EVEN RELEASED OVER HERE to understand what happens is ridiculous.

The weird thing though is that even though it is poorly done, the plot being so confusing is probably part of why Eva is so successful. People still talk about this series years after it ended (it'd still be talked about even without Rebuild), and I think a big part of that is how invested the fans have had to become to get what goes on in the show. It also makes opinions on the show very polarized, and that gets people who haven't seen it curious enough to check it out.

Obviously there is a down side to it, and I don't really like it, but I definitely think the confusing plot was a very big part of why Eva became so big. What do you guys think?

>>73558
>Until EoE I only knew AT fields as the cool force fields that Angels and Evas fight with. I think the explanation about their true nature was thrown into the narration somewhere when everybody was being turned into Tang.

That bit of exposition was given just after third impact when Shinji was talking to Rei in the infinite orange abyss of togetherness.

>I knew Rei was a clone, but not why she was so important. I'm actually still confused about why Rei gave control of Instrumentality to Shinji when that version wasn't close to him. The Rei that was killed by the Angel was friends with Shinji, the new one didn't have that connection.

The Rei clone had the memories of the previous one. She might not have FELT close to Shinji, but she KNEW that she was close to Shinji.

Rei was always kind of emotionally retarded, and getting moved to a new clone body seemed to reset the progress she had made as Rei 2. Only knowing what she thinks she feels and what she thinks she should feel, instead of actually feeling her emotions, is the norm for Rei. With all this in mind and I think her decision makes sense.

>When Shinji makes the choice to stay on that beach with Asuka, and accept pain and individuality, the moment should be powerfully cathartic. We should want to clap and say "congratulations!"

I don't think it is meant to be cathartic though. Trying to get close to others while keeping our own identity means that we'll always have fear of rejection. We have to accept pain and suffering in order to exist. That isn't meant to be celebrated.

Living with suffering sucks, but our only choices are to accept it or to die. That is what I think the ultimate message of EoE is. Of course, this is just my take on things. I'm not claiming to have definitive answers about what all the stuff in Eva means, it's all left too open for interpretation for that.

>>73563
＞The weird thing though is that even though it is poorly done, the plot being so confusing is probably part of why Eva is so successful. People still talk about this series years after it ended (it'd still be talked about even without Rebuild), and I think a big part of that is how invested the fans have had to become to get what goes on in the show.
Well yeah. People like a puzzle. The thing is, Eva's puzzle was largely because of poor communication on the part of the authors. They were very lucky to stumble onto the correct level of crypticness and intrigue to make people WANT to figure it out--most people using the same tactic would run into an audience that just doesn't care.

As far as that goes, I would never, ever, ever suggest to someone working on a new project to emulate Eva in those regards, even though in Eva's very specific case it won over its own audience.

>>73561

This is probably exactly why I couldn't stand Eva: I hated all the characters whose names were not Misato or Pen-Pen or Gendou but only when he was being a huge dick (which was I guess all the time?). And the show tried really hard to make me hate Misato too, towards the end.

Their character arcs and issues might have been fantastically portrayed but it didn't matter if I thought Shinji was a selfish asshole, Asuka the avatar of all my least favorite female anime character archetypes, and Rei a big fat nothingburger right out of the gate.

(That and the endless, minute long spans of nothing fucking happening. They can claim that was artistic all they like, but I call bullshit: that was pure budget)

>>73570
The thing about Eva characters is that they are meant to be realistic, not necessarily likable. That so many people can hate them so much (because of who the character is, not because of how they are used or portrayed) just means to me that they were really well done.

>That and the endless, minute long spans of nothing fucking happening. They can claim that was artistic all they like, but I call bullshit: that was pure budget

Yeah the pauses with nothing happening were bullshit. No argument there.

>>73574

The thing is, though, those aren't mutually exclusive things. YOu can have sympathetic and relateable characters who are horrible people and are socially crippled by their neuroses. But the show just generated such an intense antipathy in me for Shinji and Asuka, and Rei was a big fat fucking nothing. I just couldn't care about them at all, and in a character driven show I'd say that qualifies as a pretty stark failure (as far as my experience with it is concerned)

>>73576
>The thing is, though, those aren't mutually exclusive things.

Honestly I think if a character is realistic enough then there will always be someone who hates them.

>YOu can have sympathetic and relateable characters who are horrible people and are socially crippled by their neuroses.

There are people who relate to and sympathize with the characters from Eva. Just not everyone, which in this case I consider a good thing.

If the characters had been made with the intention of being sympathetic to everyone, the entire message of the show would have to have been changed. If they were made to be sympathetic, then the characters would have been victims of circumstance. However, even though each character's upbringing is PARTIALLY responsible for the way they are and gives the audience understanding on how they became that way, each character only has themselves to blame for their problems.

Shinji is selfish. Shinji is spineless when it comes to interacting with others. He could have changed himself at any time, and on some level he knew that he should have. But he didn't. Asuka was a bitch. She knew how not to be a bitch and could have changed herself at any time. But she didn't.

The characters' problems are all of their own volition. This is what stops them from being sympathetic and makes them so detestable to a lot of people, but it's also what makes them all so real. Most people with a lot of problems are responsible for those problems themselves. Shinji knew he wasn't sympathetic which is why he hated himself so much. Acknowledging that all of his problems were on him, and then forcing himself to change, is what the revelation of the final episode was all about.

Now, I'm not saying you were wrong to dislike the characters or the show. I'm just saying that the characters couldn't have been made to be sympathetic without altering the whole point of the show in the process. For that reason I don't consider the characters being unlikable to a lot of people to be a fault.

>>73570

What I always found interesting about the characters is that they are realistic to a fault, and you usually don't see that in media. Shinji and Asuka are very much typical teenagers with typical faults and personality defects and neuroses. Unfortunately for them, they hold the fate of the world in their hands, so the stakes are a lot higher when they fuck up. Whereas for a normal teenager, fucking up just means getting grounded or maybe spending a few hours in a jail cell thinking about what they've done. I think it fascinates people to ask what kind of person THEY were like when they were teenagers, and what kind of things they would have done if they had been in Shinji's or Asuka's shoes. If they're honest, they'll probably realize it's very close to the same thing.

It's sort of like when I watch documentary programs about very young children who ended up in jail. I know I did some pretty horrible things when I was a selfish, stupid child, and I was lucky enough to not have it become something greater. It's frightening and humbling to realize that I was just a step or two further in the wrong direction of choice or even luck from being one of those kids who are spending their youth or even their lives in prison.

I was a lot like Shinji when I was 14. I like to think of myself as having a strong will and stable personality, but that's partially due to a young adulthood learning how to build up my defenses. Back then, I was weak and whiny and lonely too, and I would have collapsed under the weight of the world if it had been placed on my shoulders. Almost everyone else would have; and those that hate Eva are just the ones who don't want to admit that they were (and possibly still are) weak and pathetic.

There is some pretty good discussion going on in this thread.

I would just like to take a moment to thank you /jam/, for being so, so much better than /a/. Seeing actual good discussion about anime for once is refreshing.

>>73595

Or, you know, people who don't think one way or another but don't think it makes a very compelling story as told.

Also, guys, Shinji and Asuka are realistic depictions but they're not realistic depictions of your average teenager. They're realistic depictions of seriously fucked up teenagers, and I don't mean that they're fucked up by the pressures put on them, they were fucked up right out of the gate and the pressure and insanity just piled on top of that. Of course people like that exist, but you should be really careful about generalizing them to everybody's case.

>Almost everyone else would have; and those that hate Eva are just the ones who don't want to admit that they were (and possibly still are) weak and pathetic.

Oh come on. Eva is my favorite show but there are plenty of legitimate reasons for people to hate it.

>>73603
I think everyone knows that Shinji and Asuka are very, VERY extreme cases. However, their behaviors and underlying symptoms are still very common in people. Just to a MUCH lesser extent.

>>73603

When introduced in the series, they were suffering from problems already, true, but those still had their root causes in the plot of the series; ie: all or part of their mothers got sucked up into an Eva.

That was the reason Asuka was lonely and a bitch.
That was the reason Shinji was lonely and meek.
That was the reason Gendo was lonely and a standoffish jerk (which also contributed to Shinji's problems).
That was the reason Rei EXISTED.

You can't just say they were born that way and thus some other type of human that YOU definately wouldn't be like. In their early childhoods, they were very happy and rather normal.

>>73610

Yes. But when you say that people who don't like the show or characters don't want to admit that they'd suck just as hard in Shinji and Asuka's situation, what you are normalizing their experience to all cases. I can quite confidently say that if I had been asked to pilot an Eva when I was a teenager, I would have handled it (mentally, of course, the actual piloting is irrelevant) much better than Shinji did. So would you, most likely. So would most everyone, because most people don't come with Shinji's neurotic self-loathing baked in.

You can say that I might if I'd had my mom sucked into an Rva and Gendou for a father, and maybe that's true but that's pretty irrelevant because I would be a totally different person if those things had happened to me. That's life-defining shit, yo.

Which leads me to a complain I have about the series that I've had for a long time but couldn't put into words until just now: the whole thing is deconstructing the genre, deliberately highlighting how fucked up the effects of being thrust into the cockpit of a world saving mecha would be. And it WOULD be fucked up, when I say that I would have done better than Shinji I don't mean it would be a walk in the park. But by subjecting extreme case characters into the roles of protagonist, characters who were badly fucked up before the series even began, I think they limited the validity of the writing experiment. It just feels like taking the cheap ad easy way of writing it.

>>73616

>that last part

Isn't that the whole point of Asuka's character?

>>73617
By what definition is Asuka normal?

>>73617

If you think Asuka was normal before stepping into an Eva's cockpit you need to review her episodes. Her issues manifested in very different ways from Shinji's but she was if anything MORE fucked up than him.

>>73616
I can see where you're coming from.

Honestly I don't really look at Eva as a deconstruction. Sure those elements are there but they take a backseat to the more important introspective character-driven aspects. Having extreme case characters helps the later at the expense of the former. I'd say the creators knew what their priorities for the show were and made the right decision.

The deconstructive aspects of Eva are all pretty shallow, so your point still stands. I just think the psychological symbolism is more important than the anime symbolism, and I evaluate the show as such.

I think praising a show for being deconstructive is kind of vapid anyway, as anyone can easily point out common stuff in fiction that is actually silly when you apply it to reality. I don't get why so many fans compliment Eva for this.

>>73620

Not the "normal" part, the part about performance as a pilot.

Actually that's interrelated. I did not read your whole post, but now I am curious if there is a series out there that has done what you mentioned.

inb4 Infinite Stratos that show was CRAP

The songs in OP's post are pretty bad.

Here, have a good Eva remix to wash out the bad taste.

A Cruel Angel's Thesis 2009 VER

Have a BETTER eva remix

Cruel Angels Slam - Quad City …

>>73654

One thing is sure, Eva's backstory is NOT aliens.

>>73677
But it is, Adam and Lilith are beings designed to spawn Angels/Humans and terraform the planet for THEIR living purposes. That's what the impacts are.
Both type of life seeds crashed on earth, and Adamn went in lock down via the Lance of Longinus since only one of them is allowed to fulfill their mission if both land on a planet.
Humans unsealed Adamn, he began terraforming the planet for Angel life, spawned the Angels, and got sealed back.
But if you'd like, you can pretend ''gods'' send Adam and Lilith. Any sufficiently advanced technology etc etc.

Oh God what.

>>73678

>citation needed
Dude, stop pulling thing out of your ass.

>>73692
http://wiki.evageeks.org/First_Ancestral_Race

>>73693
>a fan-made wiki
>"This article or section does not cite any references or sources."

>>73737
Not sure if trolling.
http://wiki.evageeks.org/Classified_Information_(Translation)
http://wiki.evageeks.org/Classified_Information_(Japanese)
http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/3790/NGE2-Classified-Information/
http://wiki.evageeks.org/Neon_Genesis_Evangelion_Proposal

Yes, the "canonicity" of stuff like this is generally a very, uh, debatable matter, what with the information coming from a set of video games, but you'd have to be seriously paranoid to assume that it is some kind of overly elaborate hoax.

>>73738

But that's what I'm saying, it's obviously no hoax but it's from a videogame. People shoudn't treat it like canon.

>>73742
The company shouldn't have put it out then.

>>73742
Why are you getting so asshurt about this? It's not that far fetched for the explanation to Eva being aliens.

>>73745
I thought it was literally explained in a canon side-story manga thing that the "angels" are really aliens and SEELE are fucking dumbasses who just made everything up.

>>73742
>People shoudn't treat it like canon.
Aaand that's the problem right there. It's that whole Star Wars can of bullshit worms all over again, except with not quite as many writers.
It all kinda boils down to what you consider "canon", doesn't it?
If you say "It's canon if it appears in the original", then yeah, it's probably not.
If you say "It's canon if it appears in official material", then it is.
If you say "It's canon if it's in the the original writer's idea of the eva universe", well, that's when it gets a little harder to figure out. Because Anno was apparently at the very least involved in the writing process of that game. The fan wiki thing has this to say on the matter:
>It is generally considered a cornerstone of supplemental canon for the influx of new information it provides and given a great deal of weight due to Hideaki Anno's participation in the game's production. Taking discrepancies in security access into account (e.g., it requires a higher clearance level to learn that the white giant is Lilith rather than Adam), the information appears to reconcile fully with the show.
And the google translated version of the japanese wikipedia page for the game says this:
> Settings and the world of Evangelion, the mystery surrounding it has been documented, the list goes filled with sensitive information that you obtain the information. This mystery has been summarized from an interview of director Hideaki Anno, has been recorded in the supervision of Gainax. Often content to sign, such as had been mentioned in books Basically, such as initial setting. By the character, in some cases to collect more than a certain condition of this scenario has become clear.
Which, while somewhat cryptic, does seem to point in the same direction.

>>73748
I'd love a download link to that, if available...

Btw, is there any prediction for the end of the manga on Japan? Ha it ended? The last volume released in country made it seem like it was about to end in the next one.

Forget all the haters (critics welcome though).

Rebuild is frackin' amazing. We get actual character development instead of mere character exposition. People moving forward (albeit with painful consequences) instead of just languishing in their own emotional filth. Sure not all the characters have been given their due as of yet, but those that have, have been given a bonafide 5-star treatment.

Also, though I doubt there's enough of his mom's DNA left to even make her a relation what with all the Angel genes in her:

Shinji/Rei FTW

>>73752
I was getting some serious TTGL vibes from Shinji in Rebuild.
Especially since Eva 01 doesn't seem to go berserk, rather Shinji just wills the fucking thing up. Then that whole scene where he apparently dives into the angel and drags her out.

>>73753
Which is part of why Shinji in Rebuild is more likeable. He's still scared, self-centered, childish, depressed, reclusive, has his daddy issues, and is ultimately a huge antihero (not the 90's "kind of a villain doing good" antihero, but the "decidedly-non-super" version), but we're not stuck wondering why we're rooting for him. He's gone from "Worthless puddle of crybaby" to "flawed underdog."

>>73754

How in the world did you get "villian doing good" for Shinji in the series?? If anything he was "designated-protagonist getting dragged into the plot and occasionally doing good".

>>73806

>not the 90's "kind of a villain doing good" antihero, but the "decidedly-non-super" version
>not

>>73806
What Ninja said. I was saying that Shinji in Rebuild has upgraded to what TV Tropes would call a Type-I Antihero.

>This was actually the original understanding of the term, a character who is a protagonist but lacks the qualities of the hero as seen by the Greeks (probably closest to the Tragic Hero). See Unfazed Everyman and This Loser Is You for related concepts. A Type I may transform into a full hero over the course of the story if they manage to overcome their inner demons, discover their courage, find their reason to fight, etc. Whether or not this happens is heavily dependent on the story's placement in the Sliding Scale of Idealism Versus Cynicism; a Type I Antihero in an even slightly idealistic story is all but guaranteed to find true heroism by the end, whereas a Type I in a more cynical setting is much less likely.

Thing is, we don't know where Rebuild is on the Idealism-versus-Cynicism scale yet. It seems to be more idealistic than the original thus far, but it's entirely possible, maybe even likely, that they're setting us up to go even darker by the end. So who knows what Shinji's fate is going to be at this point?

what're the odds of a gainix'd ending vs. everyone happy alltime congradurations love festival?

>>73940

A Gainax Ending is any ending that comes out of nowhere and makes you scratch your head. Both the ending to the series and End qualify for that.

But given the greater mass-market appeal of the Rebuild series, I'd bet on it being a more traditional, easy-to-understand ending.

>>73940

I have been told that the 4th Rebuild movie is an entirely new take on the ending, so (if what I heard is true) we can safely expect EoE to be the basis of comparison.

>>73940
>>73944
>>73941
I'd be down with the 4th movie just being Shinji and Asuka dicking around in the aftermath of EoE. Exploring ruins, finding stuff, taking in the scenery, waiting for more people to walk out of the Tang...

Sorry, but I got no answer (or missed it)... did the manga end in Japan? Any prediction for when it ends?

>>73941
Oh boy, do I hope so. I've had enough Gainax endings between the end(s) of Evangelion and the second half of KareKano.

>>73949

Why do I know so much about these...?

There's a doujin that's exactly that, non-hentai, and it's absolutely fucking gigantic. Really long.

Unfortunately (or fortunately?) it's mostly kinda romantic/cute slice of life stuff as Shinji and Auska travel to Germany's NERV base, while being the last humans on Earth, so it's not very serious or doesn't deal much with any pressing psychological issues or what their kids are supposed to do when they wanna have kids of their own. It actually kinda implies some of the kids hook up and I hope to God they have some sort of gene therapy bullshit to make that less creepy.

>>73966
Dear sir, would you kindly link this doujin you speak off, so that we may see for ourselfs.

>>73984

They're all of Fakku:

http://www.fakku.net/viewmanga.php?id=4259

>>74003
Its a sappy but I will read it all later.

http://www.kommsussertod2012.com/

I do not see any evidence that this is actually sanctioned as an Eva project yet.

komm susser tod 2012 version -…

LOL WAT

Confirmed for independent effort, not related to the Rebuild series or Eva officially.

>>74252
. . .

That is not a flattering music video.

Hey after hearing the huge hubbub that's about this show, I'd like to give it a try. I've heard there's many different series and movies but where should I start?

>>74434

>I have a lot of time and patience to dedicate solely to the Eva experience

Start at the TV show, then move on to End of Evangelion, then to the Rebuild movies.

>I am not sure if I will like it and don't want to waste time per se

Start at the Rebuild movies, then go back to the series, then finish with End of Evangelion if you enjoy each preceding step.

>I just want to get a taste of what its all about

Rebuild movies - Evangelion 1.11: You Are (Not) Alone and Evangelion 2.22: You Can (Not) Advance.

>>74435

Also know that it takes some time for the TV show to develop the characters and the setting. There are two recap episodes you can skip (episodes 14 and 20).

>>74435

I disagree completely. Watching the movies first will spoil just like watching a movie before reading a book; and due to the difference in animation (from the age of the anime) you won't be able to appreciate it if you've already been amazed by the jaw-dropping visuals of the movies. If Eva were a long anime, I would say you could skip it, but it's only 26 episodes and pretty much starts out five minutes in with an action scene to get your attention.

I recommend to watch the anime even if you're only casually interested; it'll only take a month if you watch an episode per day. That's not very much of a serious commitment. As for the movies, there's several, but the "true" ending is The End of Evangelion movie. The Rebuild movies are just kinda-sorta plot-condensed remakes of the anime (though increasingly going off-the-rails) but not really a replacement for it.

>>74445

A) That's horseshitjust your opinion man, I watched the Rebuilds first, then the show, then EoE and loved every minute of the entire experience.

B) I recommend the Rebuilds as a starting point specifically for people who do not want to dedicate a dozen hours to something they might not even like.

very excited for 4.0

if Anno outclasses End of Evangelion I'll probably kill myself

>>73966
I recall a fanfic I read a long time ago that dealt with the same scenario of them eking out a life after the end, and also with the Retake style plot of sending them back after 3I. It was rather good, for a fanfic.

Yeah, NGE and its fandom really are at their best when they don't take themselves seriously and produce goofy shit like >>73654
or that Petit Eva thing.

Puchi Eva Evangelion@School 06

>>74457

If someone isn't going to like it, they'll either know after the first episode or they'll know before they even start, because they don't even like the genre or premise. If someone likes mecha and trope-busting and mindfuckery, they'll enjoy Eva; if they don't, then they probably won't like it. It's rather simple.

Besides, so somone "wastes" 12 hours (actually closer to 9 @20 minutes per episode) of their life? Big freakin' deal! It's not as if people only live a few years and have to make every second count or else they'll regret it. As I said, it's NOT a major committment.

I mean, you can't eat your dessert before dinner. That would be silly.

>>74476

I like all of those things and I hate it.

People like different things for different reasons.

>>74434 here

I just watched the first 3 eps of the TV series. Was interesting enough to keep me going but I have a nagging fear it's going to suck soon.

>>74491
...and I'm hooked. Up to the 9th episode now.

Though this new character is irritating me a lot.

>>74495

She gets better.

In the worst way.

>>74495

She has some redeeming qualities in the series, but I really feel as if the Rebuild movies just distilled everything terrible about her into some kind of Tsundere monster...

>>74499
A big part of her role in the overall character dynamic was commandeered by what's-her-fuck, so on top of the problems that everyone else shares as a result of the abridged format, most of the scenes that show actual depth to her character never even happened.

Basically the only redeeming quality of Rebuild is that it's kind of like an official version of that WH40K crossover. If even that.

I'll take Rebuild's brevity over the original series bucketload of pointless bullshit. So many episodes that add NOTHING in that show.

>>74500

In my opinion, the only good things about Rebuild are:
1) It's pretty as fuck. It's like masturbation for my eyes.
2) The angels got major upgrades in badass (Shinji, too).
3) More Kaworu!

>>74501

I think you could make this argument for episode 25 and even that is a stretch.

>>74495

Asuka becomes remarkably sympathetic (if you're not a pansy bitch) and quite an organic character (much like the rest of the cast) as it goes on. I thought she was really abrasive too, and it's not often I feel that way. Says something about the strength of her personality.

>>74500

I fucking love the series and EoE for the incredible shots, technically remarkable animation, unforgettable imagery and all that but Rebuild's pretty amazing. It looks and sounds fucking amazing (The new music is amazing, my god) and, honestly, I really like what hey did with the characters. Asuka's even more abrasive than before but right before THAT happens she starts smiling and things start to look up. I also liked how Rei was more open and even sent some love Asuka's way.

I still don't feel I'm giving Shikinami enough credit... Her introduction was a fantastic homage to Gunbuster and the scene where she's playing with her doll and then talking to Shinji is excellent. Film switched tones pretty dexterously in retrospect.

Even Shinji is pretty wicked; that shit at the end of the film was amazing. I felt like I was being sucked in for the duration of it, jaw to the floor (Same thing with EoE really).

But yeah, Rebuild. Got high hopes for this. Best damned cash-in around.

>>74491 here

This anime was feeling like a chore. Like every episode it'd be the same 25% Angst 24% Slice of Life 50% giant robots and 1% revelation. It felt like all I was watching it for was that 1%

Then episode 18 happened.
JESUS CHRIST I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON

AND I AM LOVING IT

My problem with Eva, and this also applies to Gurren Lagann (but to a much lesser degree), has always been that the fanbase constantly praises how original and genius it is despite the fact the creators themselves admit that both series are 90% homage. It's like these people have never actually seen the works that bookend the shows. Tomino's depression era works make Eva's dark bits look like nothing, and later parts of the Getter manga make the ball tripping segments seem similarly tame.

>>74526

Yeah, episode 18 is where everything starts to go to Hell very, very quickly...

>>74527
Has anyone ever called Gurren Lagann original? I know a lot of people (myself included) would call it their favorite mecha series, but c'mon--it's basically every Super Robot Anime ever made combined into one. And even its central "Reconstruct what Eva deconstructed" thing could go back to Gao Gai Gar.

>>74530
Eva didn't deconstruct anything, which is sort of my point. People act like it changed the genre forever, as if mecha series didn't always have fucked up stuff and didn't continue to have silly stuff. Just a few years later we'd see Nadesico, which is one of the least serious mecha shows you'll ever see, clean house, and of course Eva was rather topped in the murder department by thing such as Victory Gundam and Ideon.

>>74531
Deconstructing doesn't mean that you can't still use those tropes after the deconstruction (though it's harder to use them with a straight face) or just that it's uniquely horrible. It's taking the expectations of genre and either looking at how they would work with people more like we expect them to be in the real world, or if you take them to their logical conclusions.

I respect Eva for what it did, but don't hold it to be some Sacred Cow, and find Rebuild to be the superior product in every way. But it was definitely a deconstruction of the idea of Child Pilots with a grave Destiny piloting Super Robots. And a notable enough one that the works that came after it felt it difficult to present the same tropes without at least addressing the issues it presented.

I think you're taking your reaction to Eva too far in the other direction. It's overhyped, that's unquestionable. But it had elements that made it stand out and that made people take notice in the first place, and you seem to be downplaying that as nonexistent rather than just saying it's not as big a deal as people treat it as.

>>74531

Fun fact, successful deconstructive works' effects are always less obvious in hindsight, because the revisions they put forward just become assimilated into the new genre consensus. But that doesn't mean they weren't deconstructive to begin with.

So. I have to gush for a bit...


I really don't feel like Eva gets enough praise for its shots when discussion comes up. Maybe I haven't seen enough discussions? I dunno but that's one of the things I noticed when I started watching it; the show and End of Eva have some incredible shots and imagery. Learning a bit about the process from Dani Cavallaro's review of the Show (Anime Intersections) made me better understand why and thus my already skyward appreciation of the visuals and animation was increased tenfold.

Sometimes I feel as though I give Eva too much praise. Then I'll go and look at a shot or scene; hell the opening or perhaps a song. I take it all back.

>>74526 here.

So I just finished it.


What?

The whole existentialism thing hit reaally close to home.

...End of Evangelion didn't make things any less confusing.

I...I don't know what I just watched.

Somebody help.

>>74542
>I really don't feel like Eva gets enough praise for its shots when discussion comes up.

This aggravates me so much. Eva has fucking beautiful shots, and that is a very large part of why I love this show so much. Everything is just framed SO FUCKING WELL.

>Sometimes I feel as though I give Eva too much praise. Then I'll go and look at a shot or scene; hell the opening or perhaps a song. I take it all back.

Ha! I do the same thing.

>>74547
Think more about the message of the movie than the literal events that happen on screen.

And then if/when you feel like it, re-watch the series and you'll start to understand those literal events. I just recently finished my second viewing, and things make way more sense after watching the series twice.

Or, you know, just ask about the stuff you're confused about here.

>>74549
Oh so the whole series was a PSA? Deal with your shitty life or risk turning into OJ? I definitely got that vibe from it yes.

I recognise when something wants to include deep philosophical and troubling themes into something but making a visual representation of it and splaying it outright feels wrong outside of a philosphy class. (I cannot see episode 25&26 being broadcast on TV.)

Not saying I didn't enjoy it though. It's one of those things where you can't look away from, but your only possible reactions is some mixture between a bear's growl and a horse's whinny.

Now I have to try and feel better about myself since I feel that existential crisis thing I had from a month ago re-emerging.

>>74550
>I recognise when something wants to include deep philosophical and troubling themes into something but making a visual representation of it and splaying it outright feels wrong

I personally really like that they did that. Really getting 'into' the characters' minds and seeing them be destroyed and rebuilt through visual representations of their underlying thoughts and insecurities all felt really cool to me. If the philosophical themes hadn't been psychological then I don't think it would have worked, but since they were, I think displaying the subconscious of the characters was a great decision.

>>74549

Mah nigga. That sequence was so damned surreal, and the way it's shot and animation in that nigh-symetrical frame was really effective.

>>74550

Well this is a production in a visual medium so it really makes sense that they'd use visuals for that purpose...

>>74547
Everyone died.

The End.

>>74550
>Oh so the whole series was a PSA? Deal with your shitty life or risk turning into OJ? I definitely got that vibe from it yes.
No, the whole series was Hideaki Anno going off his anti-depressants and lashing out at the audience and the rest of the system, and then running out of money halfway through. The "PSA" at the end was more like him trying to get closure on the whole exercise.

>>74568

He wasn't on anti-depressants, he was cutting himself. When he stopped, all of the things he was unleashing by harming himself had no more outlet and that's when things turned dark.

(and overbudget.)

>>74568
>>74569

Actually from what I've heard the point where things went totally off the rails is when he went into therapy. Therapy'll do that, since it forces you to confront all the messed up shit in your life that you've been avoiding.

>>74547
You can look up wikipedia's explanation, it's pretty good.

It's generally agreed upon that the events of episode 25 and 26 occurred during End of Evangelion's own trippy section. With the end of 26 leading up to the final moments of EoE where Shinji wakes up on the beach.

Something Wiki seems to fail to mention is Gendo wanting to use Rei to resurrect his wife as opposed to SEELE wanting to use Rei to execute the Human Instrumentality Project. Basically all of Gendo's schemes, interaction with other people and time has been spent constructing this precise scenario where he uses the Evangelions to deal with the Angel threat so he can use Rei to safely revive Yui Ikari. The ensuing Third Impact being just a side-product of that act.

Yeah, he's really fucking selfish.

>>74568
>>73437

a couple o' faggots

>>74576
Ahh, so that implies that, because Shinji got control of Instrumentality instead of Gendo, that Asuka was to Shinji what Yui was to Gendo.

>>74580
Hey, I didn't say Anno lashing out at the audience was bad necessarily. But it's pretty well documented that part of the reason Shinji as awful as he is was to make the audience see him in themselves and reexamine their lives. And that the abuse that Shinji suffered was in part meant to be abuse of the fans of this sort of show. If that's not "lashing out" I don't know what is.

>>74587

From what I understood, Shinji had been waiting there on the beach for quite a while, alone (Misato's cross had rusted on the nail). He didn't specifically choose Asuka, she just happened to be the first person to exit the sea of LCL, possibly due to her strong personality, or perhaps just NOT LIKING IT in there...

>>74587
Two things I gotta nitpick at.

One, saying Shinji "got control" of the Human Instrumentality Project is kinda true. Kinda. It's more like Rei gave it to him because Shinji had become a more important person to her than Gendo. That was her act of rebellion to both Gendo and SEELE.

Two, I don't think Shinji actually chose to revive Asuka. As far as I know, there's nothing to support that. It's distinctly said that anyone who wants to return to human form from the LCL ooze can if they really want to. I just took it for granted that Asuka wouldn't be satisfied as an orange puddle.

>>74595
I'm pretty sure that's not to signify how long it took for Asuka to appear, but for how long it took for Shinji to reappear.

I'm thinking that Shinji and Asuka rematerialized at pretty much the same time.

>>74597
I don't think so. One of Shinji's revelations during instrumentality was that one of the big reasons he was scared of others was because he had spent so much time alone that he was unused to being liked.

Shinji spending a long time alone before Asuka popped out of the ocean would symbolically tie in with Shinji's mental issues better than the two of them appearing at the same time would.

>>74597

Then who nailed the cross up onto that piece of wood? :3


A curiosity, about that, however. I understand that Shinji, being a living being, can become dissolved into LCL and then choose to reform into a human. However, what about inatimate objects? He ended up getting out of Unit 01 somehow and entering the sea of LCL, okay, but how did his clothes and the cross end up in there, too? How did the clothes and cross reform when he left the sea? If they never dissolved, how the hell did he find them??

I mean, the last time this happened (when he went to 400% syncronization during the fight with Zeruel in the series) he popped back out completely naked, logically enough, leaving his clothes floating around in the entry plug. Also, the scene where Keel Lorenz dissolves left behind all his cybernetic organs. If we take that as a sign that inatimate objects would be left behind, Shinji's clothes and the cross he was holding should have been left inside Unit 01, and he should have emerged from the sea naked.

So should Asuka, for that matter (instead of in her plugsuit); and there's also the question of who bandaged her up. Where did the bandages even come from? WTF?!?!

http://www.infinitelooper.com/?v=GoPVj7UwNeM#/105;130

this songs lyrics sounds like it fits the narrative of shinjis thoughts. he makes a wish to turn back time. rei grants it. there. rebuild is a sequel. hi

>>74802
Wow the lyrics actually fit REALLY well in that context.

Good find anon.

>>74547
Well. don't worry too much. It is supposed to be a mind rape.

In case someone missed this.
Komm Rocky Tod

I have a question regarding the soundtrack.

You know that classical song that plays during EoE when Asuka desperately fights the mass produced Evas and is in the movie singles cd, "II Air"?

Does anyone know the composer?

>>75570

Das my main man Bach.

Bach, Air ("on the G string", …

Shiro Sagisu's version is, obviously, more haunting and broody than the original.

>>75572

[End of Evangelion] II Air

And here's that scene with just the music for ye.

mari is ritsukos mother

There's something I don't get about the End of Evangelion.
Like when Rei merged with Lillith and Adam, how much control did she have? I mean it really seemed like Rei was trying to talk Shinji out of deciding to kill everybody, but she went with it anyway, even though he was clearly in the middle of a nervous breakdown?
Was she somehow being controlled by that red spiky thing that went into her head?

>>76292

The red spiky thing was Shinji.

She was in total control.

She gave it to Shinji to make the call.

【EVA新劇場版Q予告】 E…

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but when is that in american

>>76418

I have no idea. They've generally gotten a LOT faster with releasing official subs lately, but it's still a big job, because they also have to DUB the thing at the same fucking time. It used to be that you'd have to wait 8-10 months for the DVD to come out in Japan so you could pirate a fansub; but I have no idea if that's changed.

Maybe they'll just sub it really quick and show it in US theaters? Hopefully...? Maybe...?

Nah, fuck no they won't! I'd say about this time next year.

>>76418
>>76418
>>76418
November can't come fast enough.

>>76425
>>76428

>I will not watch a shitty camrip that isn't even subbed
>I will wait for the Funimation Bluray release
>I will NOT watch a shitty camrip that isn't even subbed

>>76432
I'll just wait for the bluray proper subbed. Then, I'll probably gonna get me the DVD.
Thankfully, amazon can help me with that. Even if FUNimation is an asshole with latinamerica.

>>76432
>>76433

I'd love to wait, too, but the problem is that SPOILERS ARE EVERYWHERE, especially on boards (such as this one) that discuss anime. Someone will end up saying, "Lol, guyz, wasn't it funny that Mari turned out to be a female clone of Shinji, lolz!" or whatever.

I tried my hardest to avoid spoilers for 2.0, but I still ended up accidentally reading that Asuka pilots Unit 03. Hilariously, though, it also said that she DIED... so I was surprised at the Preview that showed her still alive.

So I can't just avoid internet from November until whenever-the-legit-stuff-comes-out, but if I don't, I'm afraid I'll get spoilered. It's kind of inevitable, if you ask me; it's all just a matter of trying to bet on how long you can make it before having to watch SOME version that shows up before the official version. I'm not going to watch the unsubbed camrip (don't know enough Japanese to understand it) but I'll settle for the first low-quality fansub that comes out. That'll do me for the plot, and I can then wait for an BluRay version to watch it a second time in glorious HD.

If anyone posts unspoiler'd spoilers related to Q, you're dead.

>>76425
>Maybe they'll just sub it really quick and show it in US theaters? Hopefully...? Maybe...?

I'm honestly surprised they never do this. Have it be a one or two day event at select theaters, and there would definitely be a profit. The theater near me does them occasionally for stuff like videos of famous musicians playing concerts or showings of old movies. They would probably get more revenue by showing a simultaneous release of Eva 3.0 than they do from that other stuff.

Anno would definitely get more money this way too, since he would actually be making money from the West during the film's theatrical release instead of the movie just getting watched by pirates. They'll sub it eventually anyway, why not do it now when you can make the most money from it?

>>76455

I know, really! I mean, an average fansubbing group (which I can't imagine is more than 10 people) can sub a 20-minute episode in a day. That means they could sub a two-hour feature in less than a single week. This means it would be effortless for a professional company to also do it in a week. It's hardly a matter of labor or time, I think; it probably takes them a freaking year to acquire the rights to show it, because what we call law is the most inefficient fuck-up in the history of the universe.

>>76458

I want it to be that easy, I really do.

To my understanding, however, attempting to incorporate Western audiences into major investments (i.e., releases) has historically resulted in tremendous losses.

I can't really wrap my head around how much it must cost a lonely little animation company, even one with the clout Gainax+Khara+whoever else gets involved might have, to publish in more than their domestic market.

>>76458
>This means it would be effortless for a professional company to also do it in a week.
No it doesn't. These days, professional companies actually have standards of accuracy and take care to go over multiple drafts of their scripts to make sure they not only capture the spirit of the original script, but also scan well in the target language. Fansub groups sacrifice accuracy and craftsmanship for speed so they can get the glory of being the first one to release.

Also, I suspect that the length of a project being translated has certain areas where doubling the length causes the effect on the complexity of the translation to be multiplicative rather than additive. But I have no hard data on that, it's just a hunch.

>>76464

I only agree with you on the last point, and mostly because this is Evangelion, which has a habit of being oddly complicated and with tons of symbolistic words and phrases, usually in garbled Engrish to begin with. For all the rest, it's a matter of opinion how to translate it. I know enough of how Japanese works to prefer as literal a translation as possible, than something that's been fudged a little bit to sound good in English to someone totally ignorant of the linguistic sacrifices. I suppose I still have nightmares over the horror that were the dubs of 90's, where the usual MO was "throw all the dialogue out the window and make up shit" usually resulting in terrible puns and plot holes. Yes, Goku's father was a "brilliant scientist", why do you ask? Given that, even though they've gotten better, it still loses a lot of subtlety, and I'll probably always prefer literal translations over artistic ones.

I do see silly things, sometimes, however. In the beginning of 02, for example, all the dialogue was in English, with subtitles in Japanese. The entire movie (in the version I found at first) had hardcoded English subs throughout, which had (in the opening scene) been translated off of the kanji subs. This had the rather-hilarious effect where the English subs did NOT exactly match the English dialogue because of double-translation errors.

>>76467
literal translations usually have no subtlety at all

>>76467
Yeah, I prefer translations that sound like dialogue that people would actually speak.

Literal translations suck, they take me out of the story.

>>76468
And given how context-sensitive and subtle Japanese is in the first place, they're rarely very accurate. Japanese is very hesitant to directly state things, especially in the negative, and in English this would sound either vague or wishy-washy, while the Japanese audience would understand it to be a pretty explicit answer from someone who was just trying to not be an asshole about it.

It's sort of like how if a girl tells you she's washing her hair when you ask her out, English speakers would understand that she's saying "I'm not attracted to you" but doesn't want to hurt your feelings. Literally translating that wouldn't make much sense to people outside the Anglosphere.

Japanese is like that with everything even when they're talking about stuff you can't imagine being offended by, like the weather.

>>76481

I-is that why subtitles are like...this~

>>76481
You asked a girl out and her excuse that she couldn't go was "I'm washing my hair?"

Never heard that one before...

So, apparently Seele had installed an entry plug sistem inside the angel that Mary kills at the beginning of the second movie aswell as other experiments to control them.

But I have not seen any screencap showing this and I can't notice anything in the movie.
Does anyone have the actual screenshot?

>>76481
Japanese also has an awful lot of cliché lines that they love to repeat ad nauseum that, in English, tend to sound utterly goofy and trite.

>>77346
You're Finished, You Fool! (Oh No)

>>77347
This entire freaking page here
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/JapaneseStockPhrases

Especially "HE'S FAST". Dear god, the number of times that pops up every single freaking episode of Gundam Wing it's like a drinking game gone horribly wrong.

>>77344

No one?

Everywhere I go this is stated as a fact but I can't find an image.

>>73430

Rewatch when he first appears in 1.11.

He emerges from something.

...in a sequence...

>>77364
>implying Gainax aren't just making shit up as they go to keep people guessing

>>77369
"Hey we're remaking Evangelion!"
"But...this all makes no sense..."
"Oh that's because...er....it's....a sequel! Somehow."

>>77369

>implying you can substantiate that claim beyond your own inability to recognize clear, blatant patterns and relevant breaks thereof

Getting back into Eva while going through therapy is a very interesting experience.

That being said finding the same scenes in Rebuild feels funny. A good 40% of that Zeruel fight is EXACTLY the same scenes with better graphics.

Also kind of surprised the VAs can maintain the same voice after like, 20 years.

>>78411

That's nothing; look at how well the VAs did for Dragonball Kai. Original Z aired like... 40 years ago, seriously.


Also, I'm currently re-watching Evangelion, too. Usually when I re-watch an anime, I do it ridiculously quickly (like several episodes per day), because I'm so impatient. But I've been really busy this year with, well, actual work and shit, so I don't have time. So this time around, I'm watching it like it SHOULD be watched: one episode per week; and it's a lot more enjoyable this way, with an entire week to think about each episode.

It never fails to amaze me how everything seems to be going pretty well for the protagonists, and then in episode 18, all of a sudden, EVERYTHING GOES TO HELL and keeps getting worse. I mean, seriously...

Episode 18: Touji (almost) dies.
Episode 19: Shinji quits in a rage. Later gets absorbed into Eva.
Episode 20: Shinji gets mindfucked by his own mother, then "dies", then comes back.
Episode 21: Via flashback: Yui (kinda), Naoko, and Rei-1 die. Kaji dies.
Episode 22: Asuka is destroyed every way but physically.
Episode 23: Rei dies, later comes back as "the third one". All the Rei clones die.
Episode 24: Kaworu dies, and Shinji becomes basically useless for the rest of the plot.
Episode 25/26: OMGWTFBBQ?!
End of Evangelion: Asuka gets better and wins the most glorious battle in the history of the series! and then reality kicks in, and she's eaten alive. Then, EVERYONE ON THE PLANET DIES, except for Yui who will drift presumably semi-conscious in space for all eternity. Shinji and Asuka get better... only not really... No, not better at all, actually.

And then we get to Rebuild, where everything is happening once again, except things get terrible much faster, because fuckyouthisispurgatory.

I'm surprised anyone can watch this without ending up clinically depressed, themselves.

So, apparently Seele had installed an entry plug sistem inside the angel that Mary kills at the beginning of the second movie aswell as other experiments to control them.

But I have not seen any screencap showing this and I can't notice anything in the movie.
Does anyone have the actual screenshot?

>>78418

Between episodes 17 and 18 is when Anno went into therapy and so all his crazy-repressed issues got ripped out into the light of day.

>>78418

Between episodes 17 and 18 is when Anno went into therapy and so all his crazy-repressed issues got ripped out into the light of day.

>>78418

Between episodes 17 and 18 is when Anno went into therapy and so all his crazy-repressed issues got ripped out into the light of day.

>>78418
>I'm surprised anyone can watch this without ending up clinically depressed, themselves.

Well, in the case of EoE, it really depends on what you choose to take from it. As Yui said, there's still hope that people might come back if they have the will to live in this world--I choose to be optimistic and think that will be the case, though not all of them may came back and definitely not all at once. Plus that interview that confirmed Shinji was only strangling Asuka at the end so he could make sure he wasn't still stuck in Instrumentality limbo, and Asuka's reaction to stroke his face instead of slap it. I like to think the kids, while in shock and pain, are actually going to make it through it together better than they did before all hell broke lose, now that they have a better understanding of themselves.

>>78470
Two people does not a viable genepool make.

>>78471
Hence my bringing up the possibility of other people coming back.

>>78471
It does when there is a LITERAL genepool right there offland.

>>78470
>Plus that interview
Link? Would be nice to get some official explanations of stuff, because I hardly understood anything when I watched.

>>78471
But, but... Adam and eve! Direct reference, practically!

>literal genepool

Asuka: But mommy told me I couldn't get pregnant from swimming in the same pool as boys!

Also, it's less of a genepool and more of a deadpool, methinks. *rimshot*


Oh, and I second the request for that interview; I've never heard of it.

>>78474
>>78475
From here (wasn't an interview, my bad): http://www.evaotaku.com/html/evafaq.html

>Q) Why does Shinji strangle Asuka in the final scene of The End of Evangelion, 'I need you.' ?

A) The sequance is one of the most hotly debated in Eva circles all over the world. Until now there was no definitive answer to the mystery. However, Bochan Bird has recently stumbled onto the absolute answer, held within the Eva Carddass Masters Trading Card Game.

>[snipped]

>The following presents the definitive answer to this question, as translated by Bochan Bird -
>Part II (movies) Drama card D-88
>Title: "Kimochi warui"
>Small print:
>"Shinji renounced the world where all hearts had melted into one and accepted each other unconditionally. His desire... to live with 'others' -- other hearts that would sometimes reject him, even deny him. That is why the first thing he did after coming to his senses was to place his hands around Asuka's neck. To feel the existence of an 'other'. To confirm (make sure of) rejection and denial."

>>78477
Thanks!

Rebuild of Evangelion 3.0 Q Yo…

I was not aware my nipples could get this hard.

>>78869
...meh.

I'm psyched for the movie, don't get me wrong. But this trailer is mostly just showing character's faces, and letting us know that Kaworu is gonna play a piano. That doesn't really get me any more excited for 3.0.

JRA補完計画 「馬の戦�…

>>78930
Aussenseiter and Fuun Seiki can kick its ass.

Evangelion 3.0 Q You Can (Not)…

I AM EXCITE

>>79240
Do my eyes deceive me? Did I just see two new characters at :44 and :48?

Don't know what to feel about that.

>>79262
:48 might just be some random background Nerv techie.

I have no idea who :44 is though. Popular theories on /a/ seem to be that it is a brand new character, a younger Yui, or Touji's sister after a timeskip.

why would anyone waifu any character from this series

barring Mari they're all fucked up

>>79435
Because Misato.

TONIGHT'S THE NIGHT

>>79435
Trust me, there's plenty of lonely loser otakus with no self respect.

>>79435
There's a motherfucking date sim on the nintendo ds. It's that bad.

SO, Time to avoid the internet for spoilers, heh?
When can we expect the firt dubbed camrip?

SPOILERS ARE COMING.
IT'S TOO LATE.

>>79583
There's a shitton more than just one dating sim, I don't know where you've been.

Hell, the raising project manga is based on a game where you actually DO raise him and get him sent to the showers with Kaworu.

So


How was the movie?

>>79603
To those frustrated at the lack of Shinji and Rei (II) in 3.0:

3.0 as far as those two are concerned is about the absence of Rei and how that effects Shinji.

In 1.0 she was distant
In 2.0 she grew closer to due to his efforts to reach out
In 3.0 she isn't there, and Shinji is striving for her all the while

The purpose of Rei Q is kind of like how in Asura's Wrath the protagonist met a girl with an uncanny resemblance to the daughter he wishes to save. This allows for the goal to persist, an anchor for his rage and the viewers to remember what he's fighting for despite all the time that have passed.

Shinji's failure to bring her back through colluding with Kaworu hints that he shouldn't want to bring her back or that he's going about it the wrong way. Rebuild seems to punish people for wanting to help one another or acting selflessly. However, there seems to be a silver lining to such things; Asuka's piloting Unit 03 so Rei could have her dinner party seems to doom her, but in that action, she spares Rei from that fate, some good comes out of it. Likewise, Rei learning to cook and Shinji giving her Miso are good examples of proactive action.

As for those that ship the two, Love might still result, Shinji and Rei could still get together. Shinji's saving of Rei in the first film is depicted as entirely positive, mostly because his tenacity and strength being driven by healthy emotions. His catastrophic attempts at saving her reflect the own efforts of his father, creating a parallel that didn't really exist in the original series, so there's that.

So maybe that's the key, for all the power Shinji has now, he needs to tap into that love and nobility from that climactic battle of the first film.

Kind of like the end of Asura's Wrath. His actions don't seem to change, in fact his solution to the ultimate villain's scheme is his basic response to everything, i.e. beating it up, as his primary motivation, but he's more focused, with his issues resolved and his grievances settled.

In other words, it's the thought that counts.

Or perhaps he won't get together with anyone at the end, but he'll have grown and succeeded in moving on where his father had failed.

tl:dr
Don't make a big fuss about Rei II not being in 3.0. It's more than likely that she'll play a significant role and have a larger presence in 4.0.

>>79642
How many movies are there supposed to be?

>>79644
Rebuild 4 will be the last one.

[Evangelion] You Da Man, Shinji

>>79650
Ah, thanks.

So, the raws for the last movie are going to come soon, right?

So wait, I'm confused, I thought the movie came out months ago.

>>82222
3.33 is the DVD/BluRay version, which also tends to have some tweaks to the overall movie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blw5R2zURrI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3SAHZcTuAg

>>88044
As silly as that graphic is, I more or less approve of its interpretation.

>>88044
Man, what a Naruto ripoff!

>>88044
That's a good explanation ...I guess.
But now I think I hate that ending a bit more.

>>88044

I really can't argue with any of that. It's pretty spot on. Except possibly I've always wondered what part Rei played in Instrumentality if she was just there as a medium to fuse Lilith and Adam. Then, why did Giant Naked Rei not appear as Giant Naked Lilith? The way I saw it, it wasn't just the bodies of Lilith and Adam that were needed, but their souls, at least in part. Lilith's soul was in Rei, and Adam's soul was in Kaworu, therefore in the Mass Produced evangelions that... speared themselves with the fake Lances of Longinus while having orgasms.

Oh yeah, about that. WHY DID THEY HAVE ORGASMS?

>>88078
Because Evangelion is as much about sex as it is about anything.

>>88044

>use the Tang joke

>doesn't use the Kaworu/Pez dispenser joke

FUCKING FAIL.

http://io9.com/japan-is-making-an-official-evangelions-transformers-cr-1567281840
Thank you, Takara-Tomy.