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  • 08/21/12 - Poll ended; /cod/ split off as a new board from /pco/.

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61356 No. 61356
Can we have a thread just disusing the game itself?
like what each of the classes can do or all the stuff the aspects mean
and anything else to do with just the game.
Expand all images
>> No. 61360
bad game for loser nerds
>> No. 61363
So your title is divided into "class" and "aspect". "Aspect" is basically your element - the conceptual zone of your power. Rose has power over Light (with its connotations of "fortune"). Jade has power over Space (with its associations with Bilious Slick and its ilk). Et cetera.

"Class" has to do with how you use your aspect. Aradia talks a little about that - about the difference between a Maid and a Seer and a Knight. A Thief of Mind could make people dumber, while their own decisions and comprehension improve. A Seer of Time would have big-picture knowledge of the timeline (but would be bad at using short stable loops for fighty stuff like Dave does).
>> No. 61364
Breath: Wind (speculated to simply be 'movement')
Light: Fortune, Luck, Success
Time: Time, obviously
Space: ??? (aside from the frog breeding it's speculated to be some of the space powers Jade exhibits after going god tier, but since she's also a First Guardian it's hard to draw the line between the two)
Doom: Death (the opposite of 'Life', according to Hussie)
Blood: ??? (speculated to be 'emotions')
Heart: ??? (speculated to be either 'romance' or 'truth')
Mind: Minds n stuff duh (Terezi is able to determine the outcome of events caused by the actions of an individual, so it could either be 'actions' or 'thoughts')
Void: Lack, Nothingness (speculated to be related to the Furthest Ring and the Horrorterrors)
Rage: ???
Hope: ??? (might be related to Eridan's white science and the Angels, or it might not)
Life: Well, Life
>> No. 61366
>Breath: Wind (speculated to simply be 'movement')

I've actually never heard this before, but I like it. Makes a lot of sense actually. Wind powers felt a little out of place next to abilities based on concepts like "time", "fortune" and "thought".
>> No. 61369
I'd argue that First Guardians control the same element "Space" over which Heroes of Space preside. Like, they may be good at certain usage patterns, but that's a question of differentiating First Guardian stuff from Witch stuff, not from Space stuff.
>> No. 61370
there is also people saying that it connects to Fate using the whole breeze thing as evidence.
>> No. 61372
> Breath: Wind (speculated to simply be 'movement')
hey where did you hear that from because i didn't know anyone else thought of that but me, and i only told a small group of people

unless you're one of them

but if you are, who are you

- maybe it's just personal philosophy coming into play here but i don't think life and death are opposites at all; they aren't separate concepts because you can't die if you were never alive in the first place, and everything that lives has an end. one who controls life must also have power over death. and the life aspect is obviously that, so there must be something more to it.
- one way to look at it is life is... what you think of when you hear "life," macroscopic organisms who are born, who live, who die in a very small timeframe. doom deals with similar patterns in a different scope, i.e. the universe as a whole, and for that reason i think it is better described as governing entropy than governing death.
- i think rage is (primal) emotion instead of blood. i don't know why anybody would choose to stick the blood aspect to emotion when there is another aspect THAT IS LITERALLY AN EMOTION??
- hope is rage's opposite, it governs the "more human" spectrum of emotion like empathy, compassion, grief, etc. (speaking from a biology perspective this separation is kind of arbitrary bullshit, but it is a separation i think most people are familiar with, so.)
- in contrast to rage and hope, mind represents logic and rationality
- i'm not really sure what blood is but i think THAT might be the "romance" aspect, the one governing social connections between people. friendship isn't an emotion, fucknuts
>> No. 61373
Known class data:

Knight: Karkat and Dave. Not sure what to extrapolate from these guys.
Maid: We've seen three Maids, and all have been in the service of a cruel master (Aradia's actions at the prompting of the Voices, the Handmaid's service of Lord English, Jane's marinating in Crocker propaganda). Almost certainly a support class.
Page: We've seen Tavros and Jake. Both have an earnestness to them, a desire to be the hero - like a boy who becomes a Page in order to one day become a Knight.
Mage: Only one datapoint here. My guess is that it has something to do with having a power that is not entirely under one's control. Sollux's viruses strike whether he wants them to or not, his voices make him hear stuff he'd rather not (in addition to providing useful info), his telekinesis killed his girlfriend.
Rogue: Good semicanon information here. Powers of "redistribution" - e.g. borrowing the local Void to shield one's mother from paparazzi. If Nepeta had gotten further, maybe she'd have found herself able to direct people's romantic attentions into more compatible configurations (although I suspect they couldn't have won Karkat's heart).
Sylph: ???
Seer: Another one with a lot of good information. Powers seem to focus on understanding the big picture, through the lens of the Aspect. Terezi understands how Minds determine the future. Rose understands Light's path through paradox space.
Thief: According to UU's hints, while Rogues redistribute their Aspect, Thieves pile theirs up. Hoard it, and use it themselves. Vriska's insane luck (Light is cast, as dice might be) was slowly pilfered from her enemies.
Heir: John and Equius. I'm not sure what to make of this one, despite the fact that we've seen a good deal of both of them.
Bard: Sparse info.
Prince: Dirk and Eridan both keep their Aspect to themselves. Eridan's actions on the meteor was about his ;ast hope - trying to secure a future for himself. And Dirk... Dirk's the kind of guy who'll never let his real feelings show if he can help it.
Witch: Three datapoints. Jade, whose powers over Space let her escape her session. Feferi, who died but doesn't seem to consider it "really" death. And the "Batterwitch", who is the long arm of the blue universe's Lord English, letting him reach into timelines other than his own. Thus, I'd say that Witches defy the boxes drawn around them.
>> No. 61374
>Rage: ???

I've been using 'Rage' to denote a kind of transcendental madness. Like a beserker, who can pick skillsets out of thin air. Is your Rage-r only good at clubbing people in close quarters? Send him into a foam and give him a bow and arrow, you'll suddenly discover he's a natural at distance attacks.
>> No. 61375
that sounds more like a class ability than an aspect.
>> No. 61376
Kan said Sylphs are like Witches, only better. Maybe because they're support classes and Witches aren't?
>> No. 61377
Fuckhuge pastebinned thoughts on Prospit and Derse http://pastebin.com/DFtFaNFK
>> No. 61381
I think class match and what they might do are

page/knight - wields the aspects as weapons
sylph/Witch - no idea really maybe manipulate there aspects to do something completely out of the norm
rouge/thief - obvious they still things
Heir - inherits there aspects
maids keep there aspect tidy
Seers - can see what will happen according to there aspects

I don't think all the classes match each other yet
>> No. 61384
Personally, I'd like to pair them up like this:
Thief - Rogue
Witch - Sylph (sylphs are like witches, but "more magical")
Knight - Page (pages in medieval times were basically apprentice knights)
Heir - Prince (princes *are* heirs)
Mage - Seer (Sollux made prophecies, a seer is supposed to understand their aspect)
Bard - Maid (pair the spares, heh)
>> No. 61385
I've actually heard of Breath being 'movement' here, on /co/ and, IIRC, the forums. Though it's entirely possible you're all of those people, I guess, since I haven't ever seen people seriously discussing it. I've also heard people speculate that John's powers are related to the phrase "a breath of fresh air(/heir)" and that his class role is to bring about change through wind, rather than just controlling it; in a sense, it controls him just as much. But that's a bit more class specific, I suppose.
>> No. 61402
passive classes are suppose to effect other people more correct? well maybe maids are active class since aradia was the only one to time travel while a passive class would have everybody travailing
>> No. 61404
Aradia, when mentioning a Knight of Time and Seer of Light as a potent combination, mentions that a Knight of Time uses his power over the timeline to fight his enemies. We've seen this through the use of alternate Daves fighting alongside alpha Dave when he fought Jack with Jade.

So whatever Blood does, Karkat uses it as a weapon or tool.

Which gives me some ideas for what it does, considering his known role in the troll session.
>> No. 61406
My idea being that Blood denotes "bonds" or alliances.
>> No. 61420
So by that logic karkat would have been the guy combo-attacking with the others during the fight with the black king. Maybe he used the most fraymotifs?
>> No. 61424
I LOVE this idea. Everyone but Karkat did their own attack and they were only able to do so because Karkat helped them do it. Karkat was the party member who stayed a bit back and put buffs on everyone.

Or he was the tank if we're going full blown MMO terminology. His direct contribution was very little but no one could have done anything without him.
>> No. 61427
Latest update:

Princes are the "destroyer" class-extremely active
Bards are passive

Both are male titles.

>> No. 61428
Latest update:

Princes are the "destroyer" class-extremely active
Bards are passive

Both are male titles.

>> No. 61430
Canon combinations:

Thief (A) - Rogue (P). Redistribution.
Prince (A) - Bard (P). Destruction.

Going off of this! I would theorize thusly for other combos:

Knight (A) - Maid (P). Weaponized element; fighter classes. Both knights and maids serve a master, and both the Knight and Maid of Time use their ability very directly in combat.

Mage (A) - Witch (P). Transmutation?

Sylph (A) - Seer (P).

Heir (A) - Page (P).
>> No. 61433
No, wait, that was stupid. Everybody ignore the theorized combos. More accurate:

Mage (A) - Seer (P). Causality? Understanding?
Witch (A) - Sylph (P). Manipulation??
Knight (A) - Heir (P). Aspect-as-weapon.
Maid (A) - Page (P). Servants of some sort???
>> No. 61436
Everyone seems to think that the void player is about lying to one's self; like how Equius lied about his own emotions and his loyalty to the Blood Cast system and so on.
>> No. 61451
But Equius wasn't a typical Void player. Almost none of the Trolls except Aradia, Terezi, Vriska and possibly Eridan actually developed their class powers.
>> No. 61461

>UU: its heroes preside over the essence of lack, or nothingness. the obfUscation of knowledge, or its oUtright destrUction.

There's...a degree of truth to that? But yeah, Equius never really developed his abilities, probably because his STRENGTH made it largely unnecessary. Why focus on developing the ability to allow nothingness to be your weapon (??) when you can punch shit and make it die just as easily?
>> No. 61466

Gamzee also developed his class powers, though not really...intentionally. He was very far on the "invite destruction through Rage" end of the Bard spectrum, I'd think.
>> No. 61469
we don't know that
we didn't go into much details of there game just events that would develop their characters

I'm pretty sure the player are naturally there classes + aspects not just given them

like Dave is the knight of time because of his personality and understanding of time not because the game decided he was to be that.
>> No. 61478
Could be the other way around as well, you know. That their personalities are based on their roles. Or they might just be coincidental.

But I think it's fair to say that quite a few of the Trolls weren't interested in developing their abilities at all, since they just rushed through the game as quickly as possible. While it's safe to assume almost all of them had some passive abilities before even entering (Equius' void, Terezi's understandings of the mind, Sollux's prophecies and double-dreamselves and so on), I don't think most of them ever decided to actively work to develop them. Nepeta never learned to redistribute "soul" to her party members, as far as we know, and Feferi never gained any healing/life extension powers that were shown to us.
>> No. 61480
Trolls had so many 'natural' superpowers, could that be said to have hindered them if not so much as thier bloodthirsty attitude and failure to consider the important details of the game around them?
>> No. 61481
well due to the linear nature of skaia time, it's both. Dave's supposed to be the Knight of time because otherwise he wouldn't exist because John (or would it be Jane now?) would never have gotten far enough to ecto-make them. He is the Knight of time because he always was the Knight of time.
>> No. 61482
>Nepeta never learned to redistribute "soul" to her party members,

Actually I thought the redistribution of heart among others matched up nicely with her shipping tendencies.
>> No. 61483
The trolls did have a lot of superpowers, but most were not connected to their roles. Tavros could commune with beasts completely independently of his Breath powers, while Equius' superstrength obviously wasn't related to the Void.

But yes, that's the issue with Sburb/Sgrub. Being over-prepared before the game begins is even more dangerous than being unprepared. It seems the players in a Scratched universe receive both biological (trolls)/technological (humans) and game-related advantages over their pre-Scratch guardians, seemingly meant to give them a head start. In reality, unless you have someone like UU who is able to guide you through your session, having all these benefits is actually dangerous. While the original session challenges the players, which forces them to grow up and change for the better, a Scratched session challenges its players by forcing them to make the choice between a quick victory and a meaningful, evolving journey.
>> No. 61485
Well, she only recorded the existing and potential ships, and those she personally wished for herself. But she never enforced them or influenced the many parties in any way, which probably would have been part of her duty as a Rogue of Heart.
>> No. 61494

That makes me think of the sort of "shipping police" Zutarans became.
>> No. 61495
except for the the heroes of time aspects don't manifest them selves as literal powers, more like skills and they don't really become powers till they get high on there tiers

also people keep thinking that Feferi didn't use her class/aspect
she did she brought life to the dream bubbles. life may not be just healing or healing at all

maybe that's what witches /sylphs bring X to a place there is none
>> No. 61496
Witch: See outside of.

Witch of space saw the entirety of her domain, and a way to steal herself and her other players out of it.

With of life saw the entirety of her and her teammates lives, and found a way out of it with dream bubbles.
>> No. 61497
So are you couching "witch" as a parallel class to "seer"?
>> No. 61503
So, I'm going to take the best of what's been said here and make my best guess at how the classes are divvied up. The biggest problem about figuring this all out is how crappy of an example most of the Trolls were for their classes. Frustrating.

Canon combinations:

>Thief (A) - Rogue (P). "One who steals X"
Pretty straightforward. Whatever X is, they go and they get it from others and they use it. Thieves pile up their loot for themselves like a pirate, while Rogues Robin Hood it out to the party. Words of the characters themselves. What's interesting is when X is something less obvious, such as Void, Space, or even Doom. Just what the hell does it mean to steal those things?

>Prince (A) - Bard (P). "One who brings destruction of X or brings destruction using X"
This is one of the pairs where the titles are most misleading. Apparently both of these classes are all about destruction, whether it be the destruction of their aspect or causing destruction using their aspect. I'm assuming that these dual definitions are to either give the classes a bit of flexibility or to have it make more sense based on aspect. It makes more sense to destroy souls (Heart) than to use them to cause destruction, and it is more natural to use Rage to cause destruction than to destroy either yours, your team's, or your enemy's Rage, though that last one could see its uses. However, if both classes get both definitions, that could lead to a lot of great utility.

Speculated combinations.

>Knight (A) - Page (P). "One who fights by exploiting or utilizing X"
While Prince and Bard seem to be more completely offense focused, both of these seem to have a more balanced feel in terms of defense/offense. "Exploiting" X has a lot more freedom of interpretation than just using it as a literal weapon (Dave isn't literally slicing enemies with time, that makes little sense). Still, both of these classes are a great boon to have beside you in combat. While a Knight obviously becomes something of a one-man army, the Page, like his real life counterpart, likely serves a bolstering/assisting role in combat. Some likely abilities from other video games would be perhaps a buff aura for allies in combat, as well as a lot of combination attacks and defending of allies. Still unclear how Hope could be used aside from a morale-aura, but that's what waiting for canon is for! (inb4 Hope = wwhite science lasers all the time)

>Heir (A) - Maid (P). "One who embodies X"
This is a connection that I think may have slipped past most of us. These classes can use their aspect very naturally without having to make great efforts to understand how they're doing it (think DnD sorcerer as opposed to a wizard). An Heir will "inherit" their aspect and wield it to great effect both in and out of combat by virtue of being in command of it. A Maid, while still possessing an instinctive familiarity with their aspect (and as Aradia put it, even being Made/Maid of Time), does so in a subservient way. They are almost slaves not only to their aspect but to their party's well-being as well, having to "clean up after" the messes they make. There is much self-sacrifice and service in the path of a Maid, but they have the benefit of being the near incarnation of their aspect while they're doing it.

The remaining ones are mostly the classes we have the least to draw from for information. the only Mage and Sylph and one of two witches we saw never explicitly used their powers, but that doesn't mean we have nothing to go on. It is extremely difficult, however, since so many parallels can be drawn between all four remaining classes. The more obvious pairing of witch/sylph and mage/seer may also be valid, but I'll let someone else mess with that.

>Witch (A) - Seer (P). "One who studies X"
One bit of canon that slightly supports this comes from Dave about Jade: "you GET things about space i dont". These classes use their aspect by learning, leveraging, and comprehension rather than just "feeling" how to use them (Think DnD wizard as opposed to sorcerer). To explain this, I like to think of this a bit like the difference between an Engineer and a Physicist. Both need to have an incredibly deep understanding of the same type of subject matter to be effective at their job. However, while a Physicist will study the grand principles, overarching trends and equations that govern things, an Engineer will learn and use those same principles and put them to specific use or end. A Physicist may study or derive Maxwell's equations that govern electromagnetism and be able to predict what a particular system will do, and an Engineer might use those laws to build a taser or a rail gun. So, a Seer is the one that gets the "big picture" with regards to their aspect, makes predictions, and is best suited to advise on what course of action should be taken under given circumstances. A Witch has her aspect "bubbling in her cauldron", ready to be used in a clever, practical, or even exploitative manner.

>Sylph (A) - Mage (P). Umm.... "One who does magic with X"?
Yeah, I got almost nothing with this. Hell, they may even end up switched as far as Active/Passive goes. The ONLY examples of a Mage and Sylph we have are Kanaya and Sollux, irrespectively. The most "Doomy" thing we ever knew about Sollux was that he could hear the voices of the soon-to-be-dead, or the "doomed". He also seemed to be able to make vague-but-true prophesies about Doom and who was Doomed (to die). That's why I've kinda assumed Mage is the more passive of these two, since Sylphs are supposed to be like "Magical Witches", which just sounds active. Also, since Seer is obviously passive and already makes predictions in some way, that pairing seemed kind of redundant. But on to Sylphs! Kanaya... Bred some frogs? Used a chainsaw? Drank some rainbows? This is my lame version of "Pair the spares", but I hope it's not too far off from the truth, and it seems not too unlikely anyway. We just don't have a ton of specifics.
>> No. 61510
I don't really agree. I'd pair them Witch/Sylph and Mage/Seer personally. Why? Well.

Both of the witches, as has already been mentioned in this thread, used their powers or influence to, basically, break the box. Jade escaped the rapidly retconning session and Feferi is the one who made it so that the dead and the living are able to communicate inside the dreambubbles without being mindraped. The Witch is the active class; just look at what happened to poor Rose when she tried to do just what a Witch does best. Kanaya is the single Sylph, but it's interesting that she is the only one who was able to escape death by transforming into a mythical creature. Of course, Scratch probably had some role in her vampiric nature, but it's nonetheless worth noting. She was also the one who created Eridan's magic wand, so I'd say that a Sylph allows OTHERS to break boundaries, which would explain how Scratch could plant the seed of drinkerhood in her, how she was able to create a magic wand (in his conversation with Rose, Scratch implied that her magic powers aren't a result of prototyping) and how Karkat's kiss, in a sense, allowed her to be revived. Of course, I'm not really sure about this one, since we don't really know what the Space aspect *is* it's hard to say whether these two "magical" events were the result of being a Sylph, a Hero of Space, Kanaya's own helpful nature, outside forces or just coincidences.

Seers are able to accurately predict future events by through knowledge of their aspect. Rose is able to accurately predict and understand both probability and how all things leading to fortune are connected, while Terezi specializes in understanding the chain of events set in motion by the actions of a single individual. Sollux, on the other hand, made a lot of correct predictions related to his aspect (Doom translates to 'death'), but he never actually understood anything concerning it. He also had the whole duality theme; whether that's due to being a Mage, a Hero of Doom or simply weird troll stuff is unknown, but personally I'd say it's a quirk of the Doom aspect, what with all the dying he's been through.

tl;dr Witches are able to act and think outside of the box. Sylphs allow people in their vicinity to break established boundaries. Seers are able to tell the future through an understanding of their aspect. Mage is able to predict events related to their aspect without understanding it, but might possibly also have a more 'intimate' relationship with it (such as Sollux's many selves)

But I guess we can just wait for a short while and find out exactly how these work.
>> No. 61520
Redistribution of Void has already been mentioned in the comic, I think. Rose's mom vanished from paparazzi somehow; it's possible that this was via Roxy subconsciously rerouting Void to her.
>> No. 61541
So what would the following combos be like?

Bard of time
thief/rouge of time
seer of void
knight of mind
knight of heart
>> No. 61542
>Bard of Time
Destroys any possibilities of unnecessary beta timelines.
>Rogue/Thief of Time
Uhhh... steals away... the progression of time... to slow things down to make things easier.
>Seer of Void
Dreambubble/horrorterror extraordinaire. Possibly can see into the dark pockets certain omnipotent creatures can't.
>Knight of Mind
Bolster's their own thoughts to increase combat prowess.
>Knight of Heart
I GOT SOUL BUT I'M NOT A SOLDIER. I dunno. Maybe fighting is their soul or something.
>> No. 61547
Might be worth pointing out that there may be title/aspect combos that simply don't happen in Sburb, similar to how certain titles prefer or are exclusive to males/females.
>> No. 61560
it should be noted that the dreambubbles only exist for the characters in homestuck because feferi created them especially for them.
>> No. 61564
I think rather than "thought", mind is more "individual action" and its outcome, as mentioned by Rose.

We've seen Terezi's ability to predict the outcome of her own action (to kill or not to kill) and shown even earlier when she gave Dave the choice to kill his sleeping self and try to raise to God Tier or let his sleeping self be killed by Jack.

Since Knight is a class that use his aspect as a weapon, maybe a Knight of Mind is someone who manipulate his and other people's choice to his advantage?
>> No. 61566
What gives me pause about this interpretation is that we don't know how much of Terezi's trick was Mind and how much of it was Seer.
>> No. 61575
> Knight of Heart
Oddly enough I see this as a person who beats you with like, a sword made from their ideals and beliefes. Like, he punches you with his soul or something and you then beileve in him. Or explode.

What would the theif of space do?
>> No. 61580
they probably figure out ways to take large areas for them selves and god tier has the ability to keep those areas with-in them
>> No. 61581
File 132916420740.png - (84.05KB , 225x205 , Simon_(Gurren_Lagann).png )
Like this?
>> No. 61585
>thief of space
>> No. 61586
Stealing an enemy's space?

That just sounds painful. Yoink, magic-nabbed your arm and eye, etc.
>> No. 61587
File 132917381266.jpg - (26.69KB , 480x272 , atomsk.jpg )
>Thief of Space
>> No. 61592
File 132918573883.png - (31.75KB , 150x150 , Law.png )
>> No. 61600
Yep, the best example of a Knight of Heart.
>> No. 61617
I think I can
I think I can
I think I can
Jesus christ I want this crossover so badly
>> No. 61618
Guys we need a new personality test
>> No. 61636

(self contained loop)


(all female)

(two unique class & aspect combos)

4 classes and 4 aspects have not been repeated between the o-kids, the 12 trolls or the r-kids.
>> No. 61655
I think knights wield there aspects as a weapon and pages wield there aspect like a shield .
>> No. 61680
That's a nice idea.

Speaking of nothing, I just realized that out of the bets kids, Rose is the sole passive player (Witch being active in my mind) while among the alphas, Dirk is the only active. Oh, and they're both TT.
>> No. 61703
There are no more space players, there is only one per session and none of them have pets like Jade or talked to Scratch like Kanaya. I wish people would stop doing that. There is only one first guardian, not two or three or more.
>> No. 61704
Who are you replying to? >:?
>> No. 61705
heirs are clearly passive
also I think seers are active
>> No. 61706
Dude no. Seers are so obviously passive I don't even know how to communicate it to you. Every time they've been mentioned, they were said to use their powers to aid the team.
John, on the other hand, used his powers offensively to great effect, likely making him active.
>> No. 61707
john didn't do anything through out the comic but put out a fire till he reached god teir
I mean heirs aren't completely passive but they are definitely not an active class
>> No. 61709
Put out a fire the size of a fucking planet.
And he didn't do anything that'd fit the SBURB definition of passive, i.e. abilities specifically for aiding other players.
>> No. 61715
...wow. Really?
>> No. 61719
heirs don't do anything besides let there powers grow stronger

if it was an active class john would have done more stuff during his adventure instead of just passively letting it happen
>> No. 61722
Are you aware of the definition of active and passive classes?
Active class -> powers that aid themselves. Combat class.
Passive class-> powers that aid others. Support class.

It has fuckall to do with whether or not the players "do a lot of stuff".

So, a Seer's powers allow them to provide other players with valuable information, making them passive. An Heir of Breath's powers allow them to summon fuckhuge tornadoes that tear their opposition to shreds, making them active.
>> No. 61893
What would happen to a player whose dream self is dead when they fell asleep?

The latest update makes me think that maybe, without the dream bubbles all they got is void, a black out. Nothing. Controlled by the horrorterrors.
>> No. 61931
>[S] Jade: Enter
They did go to the dreambubbles. But rather than having access to the ever-changing memory playground for the sleeping and the dead that Feferi asked the horrorterrors to create, players would be ruthlessly mindraped.
>> No. 62143
quoting someone else

I think I just figured something out! I've been thinking about the various classes, and I've come to an epiphany of what the Witch class does. Remember how the two witches used their element?

Feferi Pyxies, the Witch of Life, spoke with the Horrorterrors to create the dreambubbles. These offer a semblance of life to those who have already died.

Jade Harley, the Witch of Space, used her powers to shrink the planets and take them with her across the Yellow Yard. She also took her Genesis Frog from a doomed session to a healthy one, saving both it and the planets from the Scratch.

Therefore, the Witch could be "One who saves X from destruction, or restores X after its destruction". Does that make sense?
>> No. 62152
That sounds pretty smart actually.

I have an odd question; what can the knight of void do?
>> No. 62153
Void heroes obscure information.

Attacking through denial of information is pretty bitching. My first instinct is denying your opponents knowledge of the attack or even just knowledge of the damage.

My next thought would be blocking all information from your opponent, thus rendering them without senses. Effectively dead but thrashing.
>> No. 62160
So, a Bard of Blood destroys friendships? Hey, that fits me!
>> No. 62163
Well, UU said that the definition of a Bard is "one who allows x to be destroyed, or invites destrUction throUgh x,"

So a Bard of Blood could either (passively, mind you) allow friendships to be destroyed OR create destruction through friendship.
>> No. 62164
And then, at the final level; they can completely remove you from the universe?
>> No. 62167
Obscuring something from existence sounds like a neat trick.
>> No. 62450
Schrodinger cat powers. they can be literally EVERYTHING at the same time by obscuring themselves from everything. putting them into quantum super state.
>> No. 62525
While I'm having a hard time speculating without relying solely on imagination, after all of Roxy's various dreambubble shenanigans, the claim that she is very in tune with her aspect and the blackout-field all Void players seem to carry, I'm guessing that a God tier Hero of Void would be able to manipulate or perhaps even summon objects and people from the bubbles.

It would both link it thematically with both its canon opposite aspect Light, which seems to work by shaping or understanding the path of the living (remember how Vriska's luck ultimately didn't matter?) and Space, which seems limited to physical objects and which Hussie made a connection to by the similarities of their symbols.

And it would be just as amazing as UU believes it to be.
>> No. 63355
I been racking my brain trying to figure this out

is there anyway a bard would be a good thing to have on a team?
>> No. 63356
If they were pre-ordained by fate to be a factor that leads to the 'winning' session then yes.
Good or bad team setups don't matter in the end.
>> No. 63359
If the group could use a little destroying, sure.
>> No. 63369
Sburb is a game where, unless you're very smart about sidequests, success requires taking down an incredibly powerful being in a straight-up fight. In that context, a Class that makes their Aspect naturally dangerous and self-destructive can be a pretty big difference.

Gamzee did more damage to the Black King than anyone else on the team, God Tier Vriska included.
>> No. 63376
File 133221475122.png - (141.70KB , 1000x200 , hero classes explaned.png )

someones theories about aspects
>> No. 63377

>Pictures of italicized, curvy text with clashing colors making it impossible to read

Yeah no.
>> No. 63378
I can read it just fine. Get your eyes checked.
>> No. 64620
witch/sylph is one who brings there aspect to themselves/others
Jane brought the potential universe with here while kid mind fang offered to bring light to terezi
>> No. 64626
>Gamzee deal more damage than Vriska to the Black King

Actually there's no way to prove that statement, since it's only what Karkat think, and he himself said that it's pretty hard to judge since Vriska dealt the last damage using her 88888888 ultimate attack (that killed jack noir in a doomed timeline).
>> No. 64628
We never saw the conclusion to that fight, the text stated it was unclear wether she won or lost but you couldn't rule out her winning
>> No. 64630
Doc Scratch himself said, that while he does not speculate in off-shoot timelines, he "would not bet against her" in that fight. Make of that what you will, but at the very least she was powerful enough to fight her to a draw.

It's also important to remember how Vriska's luck works. It's not "become lucky enough to use the ultimate attack", but rather "become lucky enough to use the ultimate attack to the maximum capacity of all your accumulated luck within the boundaries of the timeline." Sucky description, but an important difference. Her attack against the Black King might not have been as powerful as the one against Jack, since Jack was stronger and thus required a larger "portion" of her luck in comparison to the almost-defeated Black King. She was also upset after the deaths of Karkat and Terezi, and had used her luck-stealing skill on several occasions after they arrived at the meteor, which should be at least some sort of increase in power.
>> No. 64631
Ok here is what Ive figured out so far in regards to classes.

The first part of the combo is based on the players personality, Vriska being a theif, Gamzee being a bard ect.

The second part is often but not always a role that they have to grow into that challenges them, chill Gamzee being rage, huge bitch and game doomer Vriska being light, Eridian being hope.

This kind of falls apart with Terezi being mind and Nepeta being heart.
>> No. 64634
Not necessarily, you could still be right. Terezi played her mind games yes, but I don't believe she ever realized the consequences of her own actions before. With Mind powers, she came to realize that every action one takes is important in not only their life, but the lives of others.

Nepeta had her shipping obsessions, but did she really understand the complexity of actual relationships? Was she presonsible for others, being a thief and all? I can't say as much for her as we know very little, but I don't believe she reached the potential the game made for her, like many of the trolls.
>> No. 64637
heart isn't about relationships
>> No. 64643
it could be you don't know
>> No. 64644
Uh, yes we do? It's already been confirmed that Heart = Soul.
>> No. 64647
it could have something to do with soul mates
>> No. 64656
Well in that case it supports my theory.
>> No. 64663
If every session supposedly has a 'troublemaker'. Who was the one in the Beta kids' session?
>> No. 64664
Rose. And without those troubles, no one would have survived.
>> No. 64665
I don't get that, nothing she has ever done has been counter-intuitive
>> No. 64667
She knocked Dave out with a ball of yarn. She went full Grimdark. She blew up her gate for no reason other than the game pissing her off. If there has to be a troublemaker, no one else comes close.
>> No. 64668
That's bullshit and you know it. Face it, Heart doesn't have any more to do with romance than Bards have to do with singing. The fact that Nepeta was a heart player into romance is probably just a cute coincidence and nothing more.
>> No. 64669
More importantly, who's the troublemaker in the alpha session?
I mean, Jane and Jake are obviously out. The only trouble Roxy has caused has been putting herself in danger while sleepwalking, and Dirk is actually trying to put up a fight against the Condesce. Maybe they don't have one, what with being an exception to pretty much every rule and all that?
>> No. 64670
making it Roxy feels like a cop-out, it would be easy due too her drunkeness. Another Lalonde, too, since Rose is supposedly the beta troublemaker (though, I am not convinced).

In all honesty, I'd say that Vriska and Terezi were the main troublemakers for the beta kids. They had more bearing on everything that went wrong than Rose did. Rose was actively trying to save her friends. Besides, going grimdark did jack squat and probably lasted all of 30 or so minutes in-comic
>> No. 64671
I wouldnt count out Jake. Hes got all those weird Lore English synchronicities lining up for him. Plus hes basically a male Jade, and Jade quite a connection to the "squiddles"
>> No. 64673
Troublemaker? What about Dirk? He seems to be the one sending killbots to Jake in order to make him "the perfect killing machine". And he claims that he wants to be the puppet master, attempting to mold Jane into a leader. He has ties to Lil Cal, a puppet that is bad juju. A few of his lines are callback to Vriska's. Hell even his full title, Prince of Heart pretty sinister.

Man even AR could be a HAL parody
>> No. 64675

it could have something to do with romance or nothing to do with romance saying there's absolutely NO WAY it can be related to something is a little silly don't you think?
>> No. 64678
I basically think that a "troublemaker" is someone who poses a very real threat, either to themselves or their surroundings, even if they aren't really "bad." The troublemakers of the trolls' session were Eridan and Vriska, and later Gamzee as well. Both Eridan and Vriska were more or less certain that what they were doing was the right thing, and despite how she wanted to help her friends, Rose was completely certain that her plans were both justified and correct. That she was trying to save her friends doesn't really justify some of her more questionable moral choices, even if we are able to understand and forgive her.

Then again, in Rose's case, there was one notable event which does give her a bit of an excuse; she was completely under the control of the horrorterrors. When her dreamself from the doomed timeline in which John and Jade died merged with her own, she gained some of the memories of that timeline, in which the horrorterrors had explicitly her and Dave how they should proceed. So not only did she have her initial interest in them, the power that the Thorns granted her and a wish to "break fate," she also had both trust and experience in dealing with them. I'm not confident to say that they are working with English, but either way, they did use her and from the looks of things those seeds were planted long before they actually contacted her.

So despite her noble intent, she acted very much like Eridan did during his quest. Rather than following the real path, she chose to wreak havoc in her search for answers. While it was inevitable, the eventual creation of the Sun and all, she showed just as little concern for her consorts (and land) as Eridan did.

In conclusion, while Rose's actions were vital and probably incredibly far-reaching (English has spawned in countless sessions, after all, and as far as we know there is only one Sun) on a larger scale, the fact that she was being manipulated, that her intentions were good and that their session deviates quite a bit from the norm, she was still technically the troublemaker.
>> No. 64682
Wasn't the troublemaker-in-every-session thing just something Kanaya was theorising?
>> No. 64683
If we throw out everything just because it's a character theorizing, we'd have like half the info we have now.
>> No. 64685
characters have been wrong about a lot of things. case in point, karkat and rose.
>> No. 64686
This isn't real life, Homestuck is a contained, fictional story where something a character theorizes has good chance of coming up again because the writer chose for the character to say it in the first place.
>> No. 64687
Exactly. I'm ready to be proven all the hella wrong at all times and to adjust my theories a full 180 degrees with new information.

There probably isn't a trouble maker in every session, but if there is one in the Beta kids, Rose is really the only contender. While everyone else was playing along with the game, she was out fucking shit up.
>> No. 64692
Dude, we've been told in the story that the trolls aren't reliable sources of information, since they are just making guesses most of the time.
>> No. 64783
trust the narrator but never the characters
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