Oh hey someone finally decided to put a concept hundreds of people have had to paper. Nice. (and I mean that with utmost sincerity)

>inspired by Anita Sarkeesian
nooooope

>>172427

I hate how this has started.

I hate Codak.

I hate Sarkeesian.

Link being a female rescuing a Prince Zelda has been discussed for over 30 years.

You've shat the bed with this thread, this will be no Zelda General.

An interesting brainstorm, but really I'd settle for a Zelda game where Zelda maintains her princess status while also keeping an active role in the story the entire time. As was pointed out by Yahtzee in his Skyward Sword review, Zelda is almost always a completely passive princess or an active non-princess who becomes passive as soon as she returns to her status as a princess. Give the girl some dang duties and responsibilities beyond running and hiding and I'd be overjoyed.

>>172430
But then it's not a classic fantasy tale anymore.

I'd play it with two changes:

-Reversing the royalty role is inconsistent with the lore of the series; Zelda can an adventuring hero and a princess at the same time. Swapping the role like this just makes it seem like some rule 63 fanfic

-Giving Zelda the master sword and tunic just makes her seem like Wannabe-Link. It would be better to utilize the skillsets that various Zeldas have displayed such as TP Zelda's rapier swordplay, OoT Zelda's ninja skills and light magic, her swashbuckling skills as Tetra, the limited psychic ability she tends to have, etc. Watering her down into Girl Link is a huge waste of potential new mechanics

Her triforce aspect is wisdom, which discludes her use of the courage-only master sword anyway. Her thing has always been light magic

>>172429
>I hate Codak
I agree with every part but this. What's wrong with Codak?

>>172433
Add "Not just made to pander to feminists." and I'm on board.

I'd prefer to play Ganondorf, personally. Maybe a game wherein it's split into three playable sections. One focusing on Link and his Courage: Solving puzzles and facing deadly foes ten times larger than you and leaping into chasms and whatnot. One focusing on adventuring Zelda: Utilizing her Wisdom and whatever powers they give her in that game, since it's prone to changing. And one on Ganondorf and Power: Primarily combat and magic, something actiony.

Why is Power always evil and Courage always saving Wisdom? Can't we have all three working towards the same goal, even if begrudgingly?

>Lank is a genius tactician and badass action heroine
>Prince Zeldo is a useless bumbling idiot who can't do shit

says a lot about what the artist thinks of the real Zelda

>>172430
>An interesting brainstorm, but really I'd settle for a Zelda game where Zelda maintains her princess status while also keeping an active role in the story the entire time.
*cough*Spirit Tracks*cough*

>>172435
>>172438
I like Anita Sarkeesian and feminism. Your dad, not so much.

>>172441
FUCK YEAH GHOST ZELDA!

>>172442
Word. I'm sure your girlfriend likes that you like feminism too.

>>172445
Don't make assumptions about what gender I am or my sexuality. A feminist can be a man, a woman, gay, straight, whatever.

All women want is a chance to be a hero and to take care of themselves and you're so fucking offended by the fact that they're opening their mouths when it has nothing to do with you and doesn't fucking effect you at all. Let them speak their mind.

>>172446
Preach it sister! Chalk another victory up for social justice. That board must be getting full. Now put me on a pike and shame me for not agreeing.

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

>>172438
what does Sinfest have to do with this?

>>172441
Heh that whole game I hear narrated by George Carlin

>>172447
1. I'm not going to pike anyone.
2. I don't have to be a woman. Or an anything. That has nothing to do with this argument.
3. Just because someone is stating a political opinion doesn't mean they don't have a point. That's why people get so angry in political arguments. Just stop to consider that others may have a point.

>>172425
Blech. Aaron Diaz. More self satisfied asshole completely missing the core elements of characters and replacing them with self satisfied backpatting. And if this is Inspired by Sarkeesian, why does it seem to fully ignore a significant element of her argument by making the female protagonist almost identical to the male one. That entire video series is based around the idea that EVERY female character in every game ever is a sexist tool of misogyny. Just making them not Princesses isn't enough, because "male-equivalent character in female body" is ALSO sexist.

>>172430
What about a LoZ game where you play as Zelda?

I remember the old Nintendo adventure gamebooks, one of them had you playing as Zelda having to go forth and gather items to break a curse that had imprisoned Link.

>>172453
CD-i games. Terrible games, and non-canon.

I don't necessarily oppose the idea of a game where you play as Zelda (or a female Link for that matter--who gives a shit whether Link's a dude or a chick, honestly. He's not exactly Mr. Macho even when he's a dude), but that particular implementation is not a good example to use.

Playable Princess Zelda... either in royal armour or simply some sort of fighting-outfit if you didn't want her to stick-out too much (all Ninja and Sheik-like is the most obvious that springs to mind at those words but I personally wouldn't like it to be too close to that)... instead of sword and shield give her a longsword or rapier and have her focus more on magical abilities (Attacks & barriers most obviously, perhaps more varied abilities than that if the effort is made) and if it comes to melee relying more on only evading enemies before darting in to strike instead of guarding with a shield.
A bow as well would make sense...

>>172425
Hum... this is simply awful. Spiteful. It poisons the entire concept.

>>172451
I got the feeling he just likes re-imagining characters in general. I remember he did a tweaking of the entire Bat-cast, male and female, where the outfits were more practical for real life. I don't blame him. It's a good exercise for artists. I don't know if Sarkeesian has actually said her thoughts on it. I know some feminists are actually really in support of making gender purely aesthetic, and some aren't.

Also, Jack, I'm sorry for losing my shit earlier. I'm sure your dad's a great guy, I didn't mean to attack him like that.

>>172454
I... did not mention a CD-I game?

I think a game where you play as Zelda would make more sense than playing as a female link, since the three characters have been reincarnated so often and kept their genders the same thus far.

Haha I found a picture of the book I was talking about. I used to have a couple of the mario books of these.

>>172456
> I remember he did a tweaking of the entire Bat-cast, male and female, where the outfits were more practical for real life

Except the part where Barbara was wearing cybernetic exoskeleton rather than just being in a wheelchair. Diaz at best just likes redesigning things he knows absolutely nothing about, and at worse is yes, pandering to a fanbase that is equally as willfully ignorant as he is.

>>172455
You know really all you have to do is make a game that uses Super Smash Zelda and it'll be instant gold. She has a shield, a projectile and a teleport and the ability to turn into a ninja that's really good enough on it's own.

Really let us not talk anymore of this odious fellow and move past the poor judgement of the OP to open a thread with such a thing.
Let us instead focus on the more enjoyable parts of the franchise we enjoy, or let the thread stand until something noteworthy to it arises. I've not been keeping an eye open myself to be honest.

>>172446
Women would be perfectly capable of getting a game with female hero created if they stopped trying to force it onto a pre existing franchise and just made a game of their own

It'd probably also help if feminists started using Kickstarter to fund the kind of progressive games they apparently want instead of using it for scams like the Arkh Project and Tropes vs Women

>>172460
You'd have to actually be familiar with the franchise in order to want that stuff, and these people are too busy hating everything to gain that familiarity.

>>172463
Your comment is hardly helpful, infact it seems to be more fuel to the fire.
Leave it out why don't you.

What if we just name everyone in the game Zelda?

>>172465
Then we'll get a remix of the theme on the file select screen.

>Inferring tropes are inherently bad because they're tropes.
>Insinuating having Zelda act and dress like a man and do the things Link does won't just further the original point that women can't get things done on their own.
>Incorrectly assuming Anita wouldn't hate this for being a mishmash of tropes that she despises.

>>172447

I won't shame you, but I will call you insufferable. Go take your bullshit and your delusions of persecution to someplace that cares.

>>172432

Well, that leads to the question: What's a classic fantasy story that Zelda games try to emulate, and how would that actually change by giving Zelda an active role in the story? I mean, I wouldn't say the Zelda games take its ideas from any one classic story.

I think an actual game focusing on Zelda should change its gameplay around. Just simply reskinning a typical Zelda game and putting her as the protagonist is not only lazy, it doesn't take into account who she is as a character. This anon: >>172455 is on to some neat ideas.

I remember as a younger gamer wishing there was a Legend of Zelda strategy RPG.
Link, Hero of Courage, backed up by Zelda and the Hyrule soldiers, with the Gorons and Zora races being other units in the force and such. All sorts of stuff like that.

Dunno, could always do something like make a Wesnoth mod along those lines but it isn't quite the same as what I imagined back then.

>>172468
Go take your bullshit and your delusions of being persecuted to someplace that cares.

>>172462

The problem with "Just make your own!" is that it always leads to, "Oh, this game is just pandering bullshit!" as if anyone actually knew what pandering means anymore. Apparently a video game where everyone tells you how great you are all the time no matter what you do isn't pandering, but a game that dares to have a female protagonist is.

I could bet you 10 to 1 that a Kickstarter with, "We want to create a game that has positive gender politics", even if it was never outright said (and it would have to be if it wanted to make any waves in this Kickstarter/crowdfunded choked world, because it's not selling the product, it's selling the project to MAKE the product), it'd get the same kind of hand kneading frothing nonsense from people who have plenty of other games to appeal to them and no stake in the game's success or failure.

It's a lazy solution to a complex problem, and that line of thinking ultimately boils down to, "Shut up, everything is fine! Why won't you believe me?!" Not saying that's what you're trying to say (I'm sure you aren't), but that what the media and a lot of people as a whole pick it up as.

Also, Tropes vs Women wasn't a scam in any definition of the word (Arkh Project I'll give you but that's less scam by intention and scam by sheer absolute incompetence and hilarity) and people got way too worked up over a Kickstarter that was essentially a run of the mill "Feminist Media Criticism 101. Of course, we don't teach kids to think critically anymore, so I suppose I shouldn't be surprised about the backlash.

>>172461

What I really like about the Zelda franchise is its use of dungeons. I always like how the dungeons always feel like a real dungeon crawl, even if the puzzles aren't always up to par. Maybe I'm just bad at these games, but pushing my way through with half a heart and solving a puzzle and then getting that precious health is just the best feeling!

I also love the exploration. More games need them, and it's to know that I'm always getting a huge, vibrant world with these games. That's the kind of stuff I love about them.

>>172472
>videos are still just still images she got from google and a facecam
>meanwhile Anita tweets about her new $1000 shoes
>not a huge scam

The Arkh Project by itself is proof that you could get a game with a black wheelchair-bound lesbian jew hero funded easily just by milking the white guilt/teenage girl crowd. The project just needs someone who's not a fucking retard to take the helm

>>172473

The project was sold as exactly that, nothing more. The original goal was rather modest, and the extreme increase in donations came directly because of the backlash. The videos were even finished, and are coming out now. The thousand dollar shoes thing doesn't even matter if the project came out as it was intended to be. As long as the rewards come out and the project is brought to a conclusion, you could buy as many thousand dollars shoes as you want, because you have fulfilled your patronage contract. A real scam was Tropes vs Men, which took the money and ran, not even bothering to donate it to charity like they claimed to.

Wouldn't a dagger make more sense than a clumsy large sword? I have noidea why Ganondorf isn't a matriarch of an all male tribe of thieves.

>>172473

Wow it's almost like she asked for way less money than she received because she's not a video-editing expert.

She delivered exactly what she promised. Not a scam by any definition.

Just because you point out that something is flawed doesn't mean you don't like it. This goes for games that portray women badly, for games with terrible coding, whatever the issue is.

A game should be good first, and I'll agree the Arkh Project, while I don't believe it's a scam, isn't caring enough on the game as much as it does the characters. I still think more games should at least attempt to have black/female/Jew/whatever characters tho.

>>172490
>A game should be good first, and I'll agree the Arkh Project, while I don't believe it's a scam, isn't caring enough on the game as much as it does the characters.
Yeah, that's always been my beef with it. Everyone else was having this big fucking circlejerk about how much they disapproved of the creator and their goal and thought they were just scamming people, when I always thought the bigger concern was that none of the updates I saw ever said anything about the type of game they were making.

It's like when you see those dudes with dreams of being writers with notebooks full of stuff they've come up with for their Fantasy Universe, but they have absolutely no idea what sort of story to tell with it or even any characters. It's like these people like things tangentially related to the medium they're working in (like world building, or character backstories) but have no real interest in the actual meat of the medium itself (like gameplay in the case of games, or a story in the case of novels)

>>172484
Silly Dr. Nick, don't you know that female villains are sexist?

Not a new or outstanding concept at all. And the designs are pretty whatever.

Sure, Link's tunic is pretty asexual to begin with, so I suppose it's whether you want to get fancy with it or not, but she essentially just looks like Purple Link with a hood, even more so when you realize we're going to be staring at her back the majority of the time.

And c'mon, Prince Link's outfit just looks ridiculous. Princess Zelda doesn't look that silly; quite the opposite in fact. So why doesn't Prince Link also hold that regal air.

>>172472
>I could bet you 10 to 1 that a Kickstarter with, "We want to create a game that has positive gender politics"

I could bet you 10 to 1 that a development team headlining their campaign with that line wouldn't have nearly the breadth of culture or insight on gender politics that they think they do, or the inclination to make a compelling game that used mechanics to get a message across. With a mindset like that the game design itself would be far from the highest priority. Instead the result would be an incomprehensible mess with mechanics that clash with the audiovisual feedback and segments that simply feel out of place or unfinished, because those people have grown up thinking "art" is deep and anything can be explained away as "symbolism" if you bullshit hard enough. The greatest irony is that the debate caused by believers and cynics would raise plenty of superficial discussion and marketing for the game - enough for the developers to pad their wallets and resumes maybe, but not nearly enough to kickstart any serious discussions or waves of further projects. The movement created as a result of the project would be full of sound and fury signifying nothing.

I'm just pissed off that "Zelda" is just his crappy cyberpunk waifu with a blonde dye-job and a hideous hairdo.

Seriously, what is that? It's got a really odd fringe, and I've no idea what's going on with her left sideburn...

Eh, I'd say it's alright, even if I wouldn't use it as-is. The gauntlet seems interesting, though Zelda seems to be even more connected to the use of magical music instruments than Link, and since we're probably talking a WiiU game we could take advantage of that for the instrument's control system. The Master Sword just seems thrown in as an excuse to do something with it. Maybe have her use it early on, but not using it as well as the lighter swords she gets later, due to it not fitting her fighting style.

As for Link, he honestly doesn't seem like he'd be much of a royal, though as a knight/captain of the guard he could serve the story similarly. It'd make sense for him to occasionally act as a meat shield, blocking and parrying while you figure out how to actually damage the enemy. The rest of the time he can have various other tasks that keep him busy, like spying on internal matters, going on some side quest to help you get a set of special items (which you would need to help him complete), etc.

Maybe something like how Zelda was off doing her own thing in Skyward Sword. Actually, now that I think of it, just make her half of that into its own game could work, and has itself doubtlessly been suggested a lot. Still, I do like the idea of Zelda overturning a Ganondorf-rulled empire.Though as far as figureheads go, I'd be much more entertained by seeing Kotome and Kotake at the throne. Maybe even giving them a bit of banter with Zelda, though as a protagonist I suppose she might have to be silent like Link usually is. And then I realized there can't be a game where Link isn't the hero, because then they'd need to give him dialog.

>>172457
Oh my god. That reminds me of those old Worlds of Powers books. Simon Belmont had to team up with a 12 year old who was good at Nintendo and could hurt Dracula with knock knock jokes. Kid friendly Metal Gear was funny too.

Honestly at the end of the day this redesign doesn't matter. Nintendo won't use it. I am still disappointed at the lack of cougar Ganon though.

>>172456
>I remember he did a tweaking of the entire Bat-cast, male and female, where the outfits were more practical for real life.
He failed at that. Miserably.

>>172425
Yeah this is really... well, stupid.

>>172544
Not to mention turning Oracle into a transhumanist fantasy.

>>172546
Creepy, but not inherently stupid or objectively wrong.

Making a "more realistic" mask for Robin that restrains his field of view AND provides a great deal of leverage for anyone looking to control the motion of your head (Re: Anyone in a fight who knows what they're doing, ever.)

>>172484

According to his post, it's because it isn't a reimagining, just another reincarnation like all the other Links, Zeldas, and Ganondorfs, so the Gerudo are still all women, but this time Link is the royal person, and Zelda is the Adventurer... Which...does that change the whole thing of the Triforce of Courage and Master Sword being tied to Link? I'm not 100% on Zelda lore and fluff but I dont think there's anything specifically saying they need to be their respective genders besides tradition, wouldn't it make more sense for a female Link and male Zelda?

>>172503

I blame his hat. He might have been better suited to having some sort of crown or something higher class, rather than the restyled styled classic Link-cap (which Zelda already has covered with the hood.)

I'm also kinda..."eh" on his Ganondorf. He has really fancy glasses and a fancy last name and just..."eh." It feels like he's dipping a little too hard into the inkwell that gives us the Dresden Codak characters, or the same ideas he had when he made Cyborg (of DC) wear halfway-Victorian steampunk clothes.

I kicked around an idea in my head kinda in the same vein as what Epic Mickey 2 is gonna be, with two distinct protagonists (Link and Zelda) with somewhat varied skillsets between them.

If it's on WiiU, maybe finally make a game that supports two tablets? Have it so that dungeons require two people to solve puzzles, or even have dungeons capable of being explored alone while the other player takes on a different one.

I know Epic Mickey 2 is gonna have Mickey be the silent one and Oswald talks, but I kinda prefer the idea of two silent protagonists.

>>172547
>Creepy, but not inherently stupid or objectively wrong.

Actually it kind of is. The entire point of Oracle was that Barbara Gordon was trying to turn her disability into a good thing. She could no longer walk or do the standard superhero rooftop jumping stuff, so she focused on building her intellect and a huge network. She became the eyes and ears of the Bat Family because she couldn't be the body.

Once you give her back her physical capabilities, and enhance them on top of that (the implications are that she's enhanced anyway, she has the same ipod upgrades as Diaz's version of Cyborg) she loses everything that made her special or worthwhile as Oracle in the first place.

(...As evidenced by the fact that she's Batgirl again in the comics and has somehow lost a few dozen IQ points.) So yeah, Diaz really didn't get it. At all.

Did this guy gloat about it or something? 'Cause I don't see the difference between this and other fan art.

>>172548
> It feels like he's dipping a little too hard into the inkwell that gives us the Dresden Codak characters, or the same ideas he had when he made Cyborg (of DC) wear halfway-Victorian steampunk clothes.

I think that's the main issue I have with his reboots, he has a really obvious lean on certain aesthetics and themes and tries to mesh them into series that do not fit well with them. It just ends up lacking the spirit of the original series. The Art Deco Batman, for example.

As for protagonist Zelda, she isn't like Princess Peach, she doesn't spend the entire game in a castle waiting to be rescued by Link. She canonically has her own adventures and we just don't see them. Even in Ocarina of Time she had SEVEN YEARS to learn magic, archery and the art of disguise, had to evade and defend herself against Ganon's minions, taught herself to play all the songs to pass onto Link later on, and was a critical element in the final battle. In Skyward Sword she explicitly went through all the temples before Link did and was always one step ahead of him. In Wind Waker she was a fucking pirate. There is so much potential for a cool game that follows Zelda as her traditional badass princess self. We don't need to shunt her into Link's knight role to have a story worth playing.

Can we talk about the actual games now? Who's excited for the HD wind waker remake?

>>172548
>According to his post, it's because it isn't a reimagining, just another reincarnation like all the other Links, Zeldas, and Ganondorfs, so the Gerudo are still all women, but this time Link is the royal person, and Zelda is the Adventurer... Which...does that change the whole thing of the Triforce of Courage and Master Sword being tied to Link? I'm not 100% on Zelda lore and fluff but I dont think there's anything specifically saying they need to be their respective genders besides tradition, wouldn't it make more sense for a female Link and male Zelda?
The problem is that the series Mythology has it that the Hylian royal line is based on the line that the Triforce of Wisdom is born into, and the princess who bears the Triforce of Wisdom gets the name of Zelda. The Triforce of Courage, on the other hand, doesn't appear to be tied to Link in any sort of genetic sense, and he often has to go claim it personally before he is recognized as the hero. It could be argued that Link is not reincarnations of the same hero over and over, but rather a bunch of similar but unrelated kids who become worthy of wielding the Triforce of Courage and the Master Sword.

I could see a Prince Zelda / Female Link situation before I could see an Adventurer Zelda / Prince Link scenario, based on series mythology. Zelda as the protagonist would have to be less about bravery and derring-do, and more about cleverness and avoiding danger, because that's the quality each generation's Zelda is supposed to possess. Which could still be a fun game, but would be a different game. A Zelda-as-protagonist game would probably work best as a Puzzle game rather than an Adventure game.

>>172553
I am not a fan of the HD collections sometimes but I love WW.

I love the Zelda art book.

>>172553
I must be the only one in the Zelda fandom that doesn't like WW.

>>172446
>All women want is a chance to be a hero and to take care of themselves and you're so fucking offended by the fact that they're opening their mouths when it has nothing to do with you and doesn't fucking effect you at all. Let them speak their mind.

Why did this inflammatory nonsense not result in a ban? No one is offended by women opening their mouths and wanting positive role models, we're offended by deranged mongrels like Anita Sarkeesian randomly demonizing good comics and cartoons and video games as being "sexist" while poorly thought through mindless shit like in the OP gets praised as visionary because it makes a cursory attempt to pander to tumblr fangirls.

Why is it acceptable to accuse people who dislike radical feminism of being sexist but unacceptable to accuse people who side with radical feminists of being idiots? I thought this board was marginally better than normal /co/ but it appears I may have been mistaken.

>>172561

I've already seen people on Tumblr talk about the exact same shit we're talking about here how Diaz's Zelda isn't a princess, but whatever, you somehow think that somebody yelling at an obvious troll is in any way comparable to...something.

I don't know, you're being an idiot, so I can't even pretend to know what your beef is.

>>172561
I'm sorry. I'll leave if that's what you want. I wasn't trying to be inflammatory, I genuinely have run into people who have told me that women aren't allowed to be protagonists in video games, who have told me that women aren't allowed to complain about how they're being treated, especially not in the gaming industry. I'm sorry. I overreacted.

>>172565

>I'm sorry. I'll leave if that's what you want. I wasn't trying to be inflammatory, I genuinely have run into people who have told me that women aren't allowed to be protagonists in video games, who have told me that women aren't allowed to complain about how they're being treated, especially not in the gaming industry. I'm sorry. I overreacted.

Well, I'll apologize for being snappy about it. I think I'm misreading what you said, though. The post I quoted responded to the misogyny troll (whom I'm assuming may be the same usual misogyny troll that comes by here whenever his ban runs out) by being angry that nobody complains about the people who "side with radical feminists."

So, what did that have to do with Radical Feminists, and what does that have to do with neckbeard dudebros who say women can't be protagonists in games or can't complain about their treatment/portrayal in the industry?

>>172566
I forgive you. I was just angry at someone who was seemed to be saying that all feminists had vaginas or were angry lesbians and that they weren't going to change anything.

I only know Anita Sarkeesian from the first Tropes vs. Women video and that I agreed Krystal had gotten the short end of the stick when her game was redesigned, as well as Zelda being pretty powerful but still being kidnapped, and that in both cases it kinda sucked. If she's said anything else that might be taking things too far, I don't think I like her anymore. I don't follow her on Twitter or anything else she's done.

>>172558
I will admit its not the best game in the series. I just love the style and I have good memories of playing with my brother. Last thing we really did together.

As for the debate I have nothing against a female protag. I'd just wish it to be a new series. That and everyone who thinks Zelda needs to be the protag to do anything. Do none of these people remember when she was a ninja, or commanded the respect of an entire pirate crew or even became a goddess? Link feels downright insignificant compared to Zelda at times.

That being said I'm playing Link's Awakening for the first time and loving it.

>>172569
Fair enough. I actually had an idea about a game with a female barbarian who rescued princes (or something, I'm still working on it). Her weapon of choice was a giant war-hammer.

I also wanted to avoid the Mario level cliches, so no jungle/lava/desert/ice levels. I might omit the robot factory level idea too, unless I could put a different spin on it.

>>172571
See that's good. It's not forced like a lot of ideas like this redesign.

>>172569
>That being said I'm playing Link's Awakening for the first time and loving it.
Link's Awakening is the best 2D Zelda, and the second best Zelda in general.
So good.

>>172573
All the Gameboy Zelda games are great, but sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who liked Minish Cap. It hurts me.

>>172578
I loved Minish Cap.
Not quite as much as the GBC ones, but I still liked it.

Is it ok to say Spirit Tracks can suck a dick for that shitty flute?

>>172581
>>172580
You are both good people and we are now friends.

>>172581
>>172580
I shall be siding with Bic and you guys on this.

>>172583
Well thank you. That flute is the closest I've come to chucking my DS across the room.

>>172581
>>172585
Its clumsiness makes the final battle the worst in the franchise by proxy of requiring you to perform an impromptu duet with Zelda before the last phase. Fuck that, fuck it in the neck. Took me so many tries I forgot a battle was even going on. Why couldn't they just have you trace a specific path with the stylus for the notes to follow? Almost everything else in the game was done through that tool so it wouldn't have been jarring or anything.

I didn't have that much trouble with it save for uncovering the sand temple.

The art is interesting, but as an appreciator of the series, I am very sad.

You are now aware that seven years of evading Ganon by Impa, training up a young princess to being a shadow-amazon and reconcile with her divine Wisdom, would be a million times more entertaining, interesting and meaningful (even if non-canon) than this uninspired, overly illustrated drek. And only accidentally sexually progressive. And still far superior in that regard.

>>172573
>Link's Awakening is the best 2d Zelda

what
no
how could you possibly put it above LttP

>>172603
>>172581
I was never able to unlock the fire temple because of that damn flute.

I sold my copy after beating it forever ago, but can't you guys sustain the flute blowing and just press the buttons in time?

Spirit Tracks flute was awful.
Most of that game was awful. Zelda was great in it though. I wouldn't mind another game where some incarnation of her is the 'Navi' of the game.

It might also be alright if there's a dungeon or two where she actually helps out and solves puzzles with you via her magic, kind of like Medli and Makar did in WW. I wouldn't want her with you the whole game that way though, dungeons with partners can be fun but more than a few would feel forced and gimmicky, and would probably slow down the game quite a bit.

>>172632
Unless she was like a ninja again. Bro op between Link and Zelda. It'd be better than co op as Tingle.

>>172629
The problem is that the flute blowing is a broken as fuck mechanic. The DS mic picks up even the faintest breath which can lose the entire duet for you. Also some of them, namely the Ocean and Sand temple duets are so broken you can actually clear them by just spamming the first two notes for the entire song.

EVERYONE SHUT UP

LINK TO THE PAST SEQUEL ANNOUNCED

>>172719

EarthBound on WiiU Virtual Console > Link to the Past 2

SUCK MY FUZZY PICKLES

>>172721
a.) This is the Zelda General so why would you bring up Earthbound

b.) oh boy a port i can't wait untilsnooooooooooooooooooooooooore

>>172719
GIVE ME EVIDENCE

http://www.nintendo.com/nintendo-direct/archive/04-17-2013/

Skip to 35:00

It and Bravely Default were the best parts of that Nintendo conference.

>>172724
That looks fun!

>>172724
I don't care about it being a Link to the Past sequel but shit that's somce nice dungeon design.

>>172724
Never in all my years did I think they where going to use a LTTP esque art style again. Especially for Link.

A little silly now that I think about it sense the series has adopted a habit of experimenting with art style.

>>172724
Looks to me like it's missing something...
Joking aside, this looks really fun.

>>172724
Oh, I know so swedish gameblogers that just lost their shit/got a ladyboner!
Hope that I have the money for it...
Unlike LM2DM...
>>172733
Maybe that look will be DLC.
I would so buy that!

>>172581
I love spirit tracks. Like, I really think it's fantastic.

Fuck that flute.

Neat!

>>172724
>LttP sequel
>new dungeons, new mechanics

Well, I just found the game that'll make me buy the 3DS.

Another person chiming in, love Spirit Tracks, fuck that flute in all its holes.

As for the news: I plan on getting a 3ds this year and it looks like this will be the third game I purchase. I hope they change the overworld to represent time passing. But for the most part, I'm cool with it. Provided the dungeons are varied enough, then it seems to be aiming for what most good zelda games should: original puzzles, twists on classic formulas, a solid foundation of dungeon crawling and a new visual style to set it apart (trying to recreate the style of a 20 year old sprite game with 3d incorporated space still counts as new).

I'm optimistic.

But really, I just want to talk a while about how fun the ds zeldas were.

>>172760
I love the LttP overworld, but I really don't want it again if I can have another instead.

>>172771
I doubt it's only going to be what was in LttP.
They need places for those new dungeons after all.

>>172771
Probably they're going to keep the path to the castle the same since, really, it's the most iconic, and then make changes to the rest to reflect time passing or whatever. They would even expand the old map's borders.

*could not would

I'm curious. Will the 4-sword and things like it feature in the LTTP sequel?

>>172783
Hopefully we won't draw the Master Sword again. I want "sleeps again - forever" to hold water.

>>172724
>ghost A Button on the screen
Could this finally be a proper 2D Zelda that does away with that awful, awful touch screen movement? I might have to buy a 3DS again.

Touch screen controls where fine.

>>172790
>Touch screen controls where fine.

>Touch screen controls where fine.

Not my fault you couldn't addapt.

I haven't played Phantom Hourglass but it worked fine for me in Spirit Tracks.

Spirit tracks was a little better, but if that one worked fine for you Hourglass should play with no trouble.

Hm, but it's obvious that the Oracle linking would still work on virtual console versions since it was just password based.
The real announcement would have been if they made a way for it to just work without having to use passwords if you had both versions installed.

So this is a thing.
Zelda: A Link to the Past 2 - …

>>172811
So, the boss is Moldorm. So does that make the level Tower of Hera?

>>172811
Love the remix.

>>172811
Considering the gate floors, I can't wait to see this in 3D. I am cautiously hype.

>>172792
>>172791
All you do is tap something and you go over there. Tap an enemy and you attack them. Tap fast and you move fast. It could be hard to orient Link and maneuvering quickly got a little complicated, for me. But that's still simple, straightforward design.

>>172823

It's fine for some system that only has touch-based controls (like a smart phone or tablet), but if you have button controls, why not assign movement and attacking to separate buttons? Then you could do things like, say, attack WHILE moving.

Touch controls took some getting used to but I didn't mind them too much.

It's no different from Diablo really.

>>172837
>Then you could do things like, say, attack WHILE moving.
That was never necessary. And even in regular Zelda games you get animation lock when attacking with your sword. Unless it's a parry or roll attack like in WW, you're not moving while attacking.

>>172811

Oh great, another top-down Zelda game. Probably not all that different from the rest, but the gameplay is probably still solid so I--
>33 seconds in
D-did Link just jump?
>replay it several times to be sure.
He did! There's jumping in this game!

YOU CAN JUMP IN THIS GAME.

New best Zelda ever.

You can jump in a lot of 2-D Zelda games.

>>172876
Well...yeah. but that was because of the platform.

>>172876
Yeah, it seems that the hammer moles eventually pop back out, which makes you jump if you stand on them.
Clever use of 3D.

>>172880
Nintendo has been learning how to use 3D correctly in making it something more than a gimmick (add depth of field, enhance level design and function) probably past experiences with it have allowed them to better understand and use the tech. Makes me wonder what they'll be able to accomplish when they renter the VR field.

>>172880
If you look close they're actually springs. Very Oracles.

I though these analysis videos on Majora's Mask were interesting. First video relies too much on TGWTG-like humor, but still offers good commentary.

Majora's Mask Symbolism! Moon …

Majora's Mask Highlights and A…

>>172893
I'll put that on my list of things to watch when I get home.
I hope it covers the "falling sky" wallpaper in the last rooms.

>>172811
Am I the only one who wasn't crazy about Link to the Past? Felt like there was too much block puzzles and overall blocks in general, and not as much environmental variety as the 3D games.

>>172901
>Am I the only one who wasn't crazy about Link to the Past?
Yes. Definitely.

>>172901
I certainly enjoyed it, but I see what you're getting at. And I'm in no hurry to go back through Turtle Rock again.

Consider the events of Skyward Sword. We're presented, yet again, with diverging timelines.
Timeline A:
Link is tasked with refining his spirit and refining the Master Sword. Every time he grows as a hero, The Imprisoned comes calling to tantrum towards the gate of time and has to be stuck back down in his seal. Up to the final time, when Link's spirit and Hylia's power allegedly seals him for good. And then a wish is made from a purified Link on the Triforce to keep him sealed. Forever. Demise is effectively there, but stuck in a seal that cannot be broken by divine degree. Girahim gets angry about this, and so steals Zelda into the past, intending to use her to wake his master up. A time before the fully realized divine seal has been placed, a time before Link's blessing by Hylia, a time before any sacred flames, a time before a holder for the Goddess' Sword emerges, a time before Link and Zelda are even born.

Timeline B:
Girahim undoes the seal and feeds The Imprisoned a piece of Zelda's soul. The Imprisoned is freed from this paltry seal, resumes his divine shape and then reclaims Girahim as his divine instrument. This is not supposed to happen, clearly, as it isn't how this plays out in the future.
A fully realized Hero of Time, Hero of the Winds, enters the proprietary domain of the Conquerer of Time, god of storms. Both armed with spiritually living weapons bearing the triforce insignia. Both with unbreaking wills. Link is cut off from his goddess. There is only the storm, the shallow, reflective water and dirt, the clouds, the thunder, the lightning, and him. Link fights the dark god, but alone isn't enough to hurt him. Only after stealing Demise' own lightning can he land the fatal blow and win. Fi then consumes Demise and his sword, nullifying their existence. Only after cursing Link, his descendents and his reincarnations to be haunted by a reincarnation of his anger. With no seal and no Demise to worry about, the Goddess' Keep lowers back to the planet. Over the very spot he was imprisoned.

Paradox. Timeline B cannot exist or overlap Timeline A. The events that happened in A only happen due to the absence of B, and B only occurs following the actions of A. In conclusion, we're left with a universe in which there is no goddesses, no reincarnating hero, no Hylia, no Master Sword, no Triforce, and a theoretically permanently sealed Prime Evil exist.

What might such a Legend of Zelda universe, lacking these elements, look like?

>>172927
That's basically the premise behind the world of WW. Remember, the Link of that game is not a descendent or reincarnation of any previous Link. He was just a kid who happened to look right in the costume, and who saved the world without any input from destiny or fate.

I don't know why there wouldn't be a triforce in timeline B though, different timeline, different triforce. Despite the strong connection Link, Zelda and Ganon have to the triforce, it can still exist independently without them. And Demise was absorbed into the Master Sword and destroyed, so there isn't a sealed away ultimate evil in timeline B anymore. As far as we know, anyway.

Honestly though, I'd really prefer if the alternate timeline made in SS never gets brought up again in the series. The three-way split from OOT has already made things more than convoluted enough, another split for different games to take place on would just be too much.

Also, it's worth noting that time travel has never had consistent rules in the Zelda series, working differently in each game and sometimes even different ways in the same game. Paradoxes are sort of a moot point in this series, time travel works however is most convenient for the writers. It's possible there wasn't even a split, and that timeline B did overwrite part of timeline A even if it doesn't make sense. It wouldn't be the first time that's happened in the series, or even in Skyward Sword (remember the Tree of Life? You went back in time to plant it because it wasn't already there, and when you got back it was grown up and Groose had been acting like it had always been there. Paradox.)

>>172940
>Remember, the Link of that game is not a descendent or reincarnation of any previous Link.

Except he is.

It's stated near the end that he is the reincarnation of the Hero of Time.

>>172942
Really? When the King of Red Lions was talking to Jabun he said that WW Link had no connection to the hero of time. When was it revealed that he was a reincarnation?

>>172943
When he said that, he meant there was no bloodline connection. (because that would've been impossible) Unlike all previous Links, this wasn't a descendant of a previous hero.

Ganon remarks near the end: "Yes, truly you are the Hero of Time, reborn." It's the same thing as with Ganon in FSA. Link retains the spirit of the Hero as passed down from SS Link.

>>172944
>Ganon remarks near the end: "Yes, truly you are the Hero of Time, reborn."
I always thought Ganon was being nonliteral/deluded about that. I mean, the whole plot (including the "proving worthy of the Triforce of Courage" in the middle) was that Link was just some kid that really went out of his way to save his sister.

>>172946
Only Links pure soul can bind with the Triforce of Courage. It's why he's Hylia's chosen, no matter who he's born as.

>>172947
But Zelda always has the Triforce of Wisdom from birth as near as we can tell. If Link is a literal reincarnation of the Hero of Time each time, why doesn't he inherit the Triforce of Courage automatically?

Also, in Twilight Princess Link actually met the Hero of Time.

>>172957
Because he severed his connection with it when he blew it up and hid the pieces.

>>172947
>Only Links pure soul can bind with the Triforce of Courage.

I don't think so. When the Triforce is split the person who touched it keeps whatever piece they most believe in, the other two fly away and attach themselves to the people of the land who most believe in their respective aspect. If someone splits it but courage is the aspect they consider most important, they'll get that piece. The Triforce of courage always flies to Link because he is always the one who has the most courage or values courage the most out of anyone in Hyrule, and because Ganon believes in power more than courage. Hylia has it set up so that whenever this happens, Link will be there to receive his triforce piece. But if Link weren't around, it would hypothetically just go to whatever runner-up is out there.

Also, there's a problem with WW Link being a reincarnation of OOT Link. If the Hero of Time was sent back to his own timeline, his 'spirit' would reincarnate later in that timeline. But not in the WW timeline, in that timeline his spirit just isn't there. The OOT split was made from him going back in time, so the future timeline has no Link in it to reincarnate. This is why no hero rose up when Ganon returned and the gods had to flood Hyrule. Hylia has things set up so that a hero will be around in those situations to stop things from getting too bad. That can't happen if the spirit of the hero isn't around to be reincarnated. Plus, WW Link DID have to prove himself to the gods, and I think the gods are a better judge of whether or not he is a reincarnation than Ganon is.

I'm not trying to argue or prove you wrong or anything, just trying to figure out how everything pieces together in this complicated lore.

>>172957
>But Zelda always has the Triforce of Wisdom from birth as near as we can tell.

Going by WW I think it's just handed directly down the family line, like an heirloom. The Triforce kind of switches between being 'inside/with' its holder and being a physical object they just carry around, so it's kind of hard to say how passing it down works. I know in OOT she wouldn't have gotten her piece until Ganon split the Triforce.

>in Twilight Princess Link actually met the Hero of Time.
Which is why I think TP Link is a descendent of OOT Link rather than a reincarnation.

>If Link is a literal reincarnation of the Hero of Time each time, why doesn't he inherit the Triforce of Courage automatically?
He does in TP, doesn't he? This would actually support the idea of triforce pieces being passed down bloodlines.

>>172972
>The OOT split was made from him going back in time, so the future timeline has no Link in it to reincarnate.
Actually (and I'll have to double check my copy when I get home), according to the Hyrule Historia WW is from the timeline where Link fails (e.g. dies) in OoT, either in the past or future. So there would be a Link to reincarnate.

Also, in WW, the Triforce is already split (having never been brought back together in OoT), which is part of the reason that WW Link has to trawl for the pieces. So it's not like the piece could just choose him like it has previous Links.

>>172975
>WW is from the timeline where Link fails

no Auto that's wrong

I base this more on headcanon than anything I can actually validate, but hear me out.

Why is it that Link, what is thought to be a reincarnating soul that bounces from generation to generation, can be both a restless soul and inhabit a new body in another generation? Because The Hero is not tied to one individual soul. The Hero is a vehicle of Hylian biology, and the cosmos. The soul inhabiting it is almost a triviality. All Links are different souls, but all those souls are also The Hero Reborn.

How can this be? Well. Consider. Once upon a time, there were three golden goddesses. They either remade or made the planet these stories take place on, wholesale. They then made an instrument of divine, golden fey power consisting of at least three parts, and told Hylia to keep it safe. Then they booked it to parts unknown. Then Demise popped out from inside the planet with an army of demons like, "DO WANT." So he and Hylia waged war on one another. Demise lost. Hylia suffered grievous wounds and decided it may just be better to go Mortal mode with Divine Wisdom privileges. But, she realized if Demise ever got back up, and he would, she'd be fucked. She needed a way to deal with Demise, for good. How? How do you stop the unstoppable? How do you stop a monster that can't be stopped, even in death and having his body and consistency stolen from him? Her answer was to replace and depose him from his place in the pantheon.
She took Demise' true form away from him. A form that, if we go by the evidence of Girahim's true form (and, by extension, the true form of his wielder), resembles Link in many ways. Her champion would be a being with an unshakable willpower, boundless determination, cunning, and a good sword arm. Unlike her enemy, her champion would be raised and cultured in a good environment. He'd retain Demise' boundless willpower and cunning, and nothing else. Instantly, she had the most willful and unwilting champion in a mortal body possible. She fashioned Fi and the ultimate form of the Goddess Blade as a glowing reflection of Girahim and Demise' relationship. She created trials and training intended to grow her champion's soul, before entrusting him with dangerous divine power. Link is everything Demise could never be, because where Demise was created dark and wrong, Link was righteous. And mortal. Able to access the golden power of three gods.
The Hero of Time entered the Conqueror of Time's realm. The Hero of Winds faced the God of Storms. They fought. Link had the tools he needed to out-Demise Demise. Demise was slain and devoured by the Bane of Evil, and effectively eliminated by being replaced and overwritten. Only Demise could stop himself.

Hylia's Hero was designed from the ground up to imp Demise as a righteous mortal. Her own divine fanfiction, if you will. Fate pretty much decrees that The Hero of Time will bear his spirit, if not his soul specifically. And with that raw material, press on to do what is needed. They are all separate individuals, but there's something they all share in common. Characteristics favored by Hylia in a hero, the hero is fated to have. Thus, The Hero's Shade and Twilight Princess' Hero are(were) both Link, but not the same Link. Shade /was/ the Hero. His time has passed. Now he's a restless ghost touched by the golden power. There is no hereditary soul, only characteristics that are given to worthy souls by destiny. So in a way, it is reincarnation. And in a way, it isn't.

Alternatively, it's a video game.

>>172877

Yeah, but you need an item like the Roc's Feather and such, not just naturally jumping on your own like in--

>>172878
>Not actually jumping

Damn it!

>>172978
o

>>172975
Link failing and dying leads to the Pig Ganon timelines actually.

>>172985
Yup, just checked. WW is part of the Adult Era timeline. Boy, is my face derp.

>>172901
>Felt like there was too much block puzzles
I don't think it had more than any other Zelda game tbh. There's a ton of block pushing in pretty much every one. And if the Ice Temple bothers you, it's really meant to be done with the Cane of Somalia anyway, which makes block puzzles easier in general.

>not as much environmental variety as the 3D games.
No idea where you're getting this.

>>172996

Once you're inside a LttP dungeon, it's all just the same tileset, sometimes palette swapped.

>>173017
>I never actually played Link to the Past

>>172901
I played a few hours of it and got so bored that I stopped. I haven't touched it since.
Might go back to it one day.
Might just keep calling Link's Awakening the best 2D Zelda instead.

>>173018

Actually, I have. I've never beaten it because I get bored after 4-5 samey dungeons, though.

>>172901
I try to play it every few years since it, 2 and the original are the only zelda's I've never finished, but for some reason I can never get more than a few hours into it

>>172901
I'm in the middle of my first playthrough. So far I have mixed feelings about it.

On the one hand, the dungeons are fucking great. They're some of the most fun I've ever had in Zelda dungeons. I love, absolutely LOVE the increased emphasis on combat compared to other Zelda games. There are much more enemies and they aren't as easy to kill as ones later in the series, the overworld being full of badies is also really nice compared to the more barren overworlds the series starts using later on. The field enemies aren't really a threat to me anymore, as I've only got 3 or 4 dungeons left to go, but when I first got to the darkworld they were quite dangerous.

The only thing I really don't like about the game is that getting to each new dungeon can be such a chore. The map tells me the approximate area they are in, but actually getting to them is usually pretty difficult, and not in a fun way. It feels less challenging and more "what do I do". I know some people love this kind of exploration but it isn't my cup of tea. I also think switching between light and dark worlds to solve puzzles is more annoying than fun, but that isn't a big deal. Despite these complaints I'd still say it's an overall amazing game so far.

I've actually never played Link's Awakening. The first four Zelda games are actually the only ones in the series I haven't beaten, but I'd like to play through all of them eventually. I did get a few dungeons into Zelda 2 about a year ago, and I have to say the game is actually tons of fun. I understand the hate it gets for being different, but as its own game it's actually pretty great.

>>173019
>Might just keep calling Link's Awakening the best 2D Zelda instead.

My n-word.

It feels like Link's Awakening is the Majora's Mask of 2d.

>>173075
>Link's Awakening
>Not the awesome Oracles games.

>>173075
>>173044
Enjoy constantly switching items all the time.

>>173082

>>173083

Gangster.

>>173076
Oracle of Seasons was awesome.
Oracle of Ages was pretty good, but just pretty good.
Linked game is ultimate experience.

>>173076
I hate it when you're right.

So, I'm playing through Twilight Princess now, and holy crap is Lakebed temple boring and forgettable.

>>173240
But isn't it fun to move all the water around?

>>173240
It's not forgettable for being the most annoying dungeon in the game.

But it is boring for having THE SAME SHADE OF GREY EVERYWHERE

>>173240
Tried playing TP again myself (well starting up an old save I never finished) and holy shit does it control like rancid ass.

>>173244
I have similar feelings for Great Bay Temple in Majora's Mask.
>>173245
That's why I'm playing the Game cube version.

>>173240
>>173259

Can Zelda just not do Water Dungeons right?

>>173265
Fuck yes they can...when they make the actual water parts not as important.

so ya... that doorway arch... kind of looks like a pussy

>>173268
It is the gateway between heaven and hell.

>>173268
That's fitting, like 90 percent of cultures used the body for architecture and weren't choose-y about what not to use.

>>173267
Best dungeon and best boss in Skyward Sword.

Even having changing water levels doesn't mean it's a bad dungeon.

>>173275
I fucking hated Tower of the Gods. Your boat is pathetically slow, and the statue puzzles took too long.

>>173267
I can't disagree. The Ancient Cistern has to be my favorite water temple, ever. It really is a beautiful piece of work. It feels like you're tear-assing through some sort of Hindu/Buddhist temple. That may or may not have been built by Bokoblins (as cultists, or slaves.)

And then you go upstairs and have to fight some sort of potbellied golden idol spawned from Kali/Buddha that summons zombified bokoblins to distract you. It's just lovely. Nintendo really found a sweet spot, that time. I hope they use it for inspiration in future games, because they really nailed it with this.

>>173278
The thing about that temple, for me, is when you go downstairs. So far you're in said Buddhist theme, and then... THAT.

>>173244
>>173240
I didn't mind that dungeon one bit. And I replayed TP about a month ago, so I know it isn't nostalgia. I even returned later in the game after acquiring the second clawshot, just to see what dicking around in there would be like. Chances are I found it more tolerable because the water flow puzzles boil down to hitting switches more often than actually entering the water, which always feels cumbersome. Even Zora Link, arguably the height of 3D underwater exploration in this franchise, was difficult for me to control.

>>173279
I have this theory and fanon going that some temples are supposed to be some sort of story told through architecture. It doesn't really pan out, but who knows. It's at least fun to contemplate.

>>173285
>>173275
Such as this.
There's a recurring feature of a menacing face throughout the shadow temple, and the Bottom of the Well.
>large round menacing face
>water pouring out from it.
>why?

>>173295
Gargoyles where once used as aqueducts so it probably takes from that.
I mean, gargoyles are spooky and all so being a part of the shadow temple works out well enough.

>>173278
Skyward Sword had the best environments period, I think, and the ancient cistern is one of the best dungeons a Zelda game's ever had. Lanaryu Desert was my favourite area overall though... it's too bad the boss designs are kind of shitty, they ruined the dungeons somewhat. Except for the ancient cistern buddha robot thing, that boss was awesome. Why weren't the others like that?

>>173325
The actual confrontation with him wasn't all that, but I enjoyed the buildup to it.

>>173325
I'm kind of two minds on this myself. For Skyward Sword, which is so visual, I have to rate the bosses by how interesting they are conceptually and how interesting they are to fight.

Girahim I: A nice introduction. Evading your Skyward Strikes is a nice touch. Overall he's a monstrous demonic sword turned into a creepy androgynous fey, and he fights like one. Fighting him, another humanoid boss, really made me feel like Link was starting to get the hang of this Chosen Badass motif. Definitely first boss level. Can't expect too big a challenge, and it provided it. But you also had to dip into your skills in order to beat him. It's substantially easier later, but..
Scaldera: Aesthetically and conceptually, it's neat. It's bizarre. What the hell *is* it? It's not a difficult boss, it's just strange and foreign. Almost alien. It is not difficult at all to kill. Low learning curve. They could've done more with it, because it's such a waste of a neat idea.
Moldarach:ehh.. kinda lame, I'll be honest. Conceptually, it's just a giant scorpion. A grown up version of those cyclopeon parasites you find everywhere. Unless and until Legend of Zelda elaborates on if these cyclopean beasts are a /thing/, which would add significance to "giant scorpion" or "covered in eyes for seemingly no reason," seems like a waste of a good boss. The gameplay method to beat is firmly in the OK, but they really could've done better.
The Imprisoned I: Just plain cool. It's like the angry offspring of a dragon and a shoggoth. It totally does not care about anything but climbing the ramp to the Temple of Time. Getting to choose between chopping its toes off and be blown skyward by an air jet to land on his head and shove the ward back into its brain. I like this.
Stalmaster: Oh man. See, Moldarach. This is how you Boss. Large, undead skeleton with swords and axes, and four arms? This was interesting, and I found it stimulating to fight. Not lazy design, or to fight, in my humble little O.
Koloktos: What more is there to say? Just damned interesting, in concept, in theme of the dungeon, and how you fight him. It felt really satisfying to tear the imposter's hollow limbs off and send it on its way. So very good.
Scervo: This could've been a lot more interesting. We get an ancient automaton pirate with an augur for a sword, and the best we get is a few lines of dialog indicating it exists and a simple lane to push him off. Why are there robot pirates? That could've been interesting.
Tentalus: Conceptually, they could've done more. I like the effect of the tentacles, but the body seems so plain. All I'm saying is this would've been a nice battle to incorporate crows nests, ziplines and use bombs to stun the bitch so you can drop down into that nest of tentacle hair, charge up a Skywards Strike and then cauterize the roots with an energized spin, like you were burning a hydra's necks. Chopping up tentacles that burst up from beneath the deck was fun, though.
Magmanos: Eh. Okay I guess. On the same level as the double-lizards.
Girahim II: Same aesthetic, pretty much the same pattern. Not baaaad.... couldn't we have had a better boss than this? Maybe have this encounter in addition to a proper temple boss. It would've been fun to at least once slap Ghirahim silly and then slap a motherfucker with that motherfucker.
The Imprisoned II: Maybe this would be more acceptable if we had another boss to go with more-of-the-same. I did like Groose getting in on the action. It's a pity you never got to call him to throw huge, heavy, explosive shit at other things. As good as the first Imprisoned, but only as good as leftovers with some spice on them. Not bad. Not amazing, either.
Levias: I don't know about yall, but I liked this. In concept, it's pretty interesting. In practice, I would've preferred using the fairy bow to divebombing it with the bird. It could've been a lot more spicey. I mean, how many of us loved target practice on Epona's back? We could've done with lobbing arrows at this parasite, no problem. High marks in ideas, lukewarm execution.
Bilocyte: Such a neat boss concept.. squandered. Far too easy. At least the Wind Fish had a Nightmare with diverse shapes. This guy was just like fighting an oversized, puking dekubaba. C'mon, Nintendo. You can do better than this.
The Imprisoned III: I did mention 'you can do better than this'. Twice was tolerable but we quite literally just got done beating this guy. It's satisfying to shoot him out of the air like some sort of hilarious combination of Tanks and Balloon Fight, but.. more could have been done.
The Horde: Oh man. Conceptually, you're running a gauntlet and beating the ass of everything in your way. In practice, it's a little tedious. Maybe if more diverse creatures were summoned.
Girahim III: NOW we're talking. The smug has finally been scrubbed clean of this guy and he's down to the bare metals. In concept, this is stellar for a next-to-last boss fight. In practice, both Phase 1 and Phase 2 are immensely satisfying and fun.
Demise: Conceptually, it does what it needs to do, and does it in style. Mechanically, I think Demise was a little too stiff and immobile. It felt like he wasn't used to fighting anything but peasants with pitchforks. Where was the God part in God of Destruction? Not even in an anime 'what are physics?' sense, neither. I definitely got the impression he was some sort of weekend warrior of a dark lord that wasn't used to fighting anything that could actually hit back and make it stick.

I dunno. Maybe they ran out of room on the CD? Budget? Time? They weren't /bad/.. just slightly lacking.

>>173295
It's just Dead Hand. Letting you know he's always there. Watching. Waiting.

>>173285
>>173295
I remember reading an article on horror claiming that there's a belief that hold bodies of water or flowing water had a connection to the afterlife, due to carrying spirits there if I remember correctly, but I can't find it.

http://www.examiner.com/article/fan-gives-twilight-princess-a-skyward-sword-makeover

>>173779
Pity they don't have the same shaders.

>>173779
>bright and cel shaded aesthetics

God I fucking hate people that describe the artstyle like that.

>>173799
It's surprising how many people don't realize cel-shading is a lighting technique and not an art style. Twilight Princess used cel shading too, but nobody ever seems to acknowledge (or know) that.

I don't see any problem in referring to SS's visuals as "bright" though.

I was under the impression that emulators and roms, while fun and near ubiquitous on the internet, were illegal.
This news won't get cease and desist letters + FBI door knocking at that poor schlub's house?

>>173823
Emulators aren't illegal. Roms are. While a texture pack made up of textures ripped from Skyward Sword would be pure copyright infringement (though probably more of a civil infringement than a criminal one), as long as they don't distribute the Rom they're probably beneath Nintendo's notice.

That said, I'm not a lawyer, so take what I'm saying with a grain of salt.

>>173823
>>173824
Modifying the game like this is illegal, but Nintendo is usually pretty cool about this kind of stuff. They said they were aware of the Mother 3 translation patch, for example, and did nothing to stop it. There are SHITLOADS of mods, downloadable characters and alternate textures for Brawl over on Brawlvault (most of them suck, but that's beside the point); there's no way Nintendo doesn't know about that. And there've been plenty of texture packs for OOT over the years that got big enough for Nintendo to probably know about them, but I never heard of anyone getting sued.

Keep in mind most people who'll play through TP with that texture pack are probably people who've already bought and played through the game at least once. Letting people do little "doujin" projects like this is probably more beneficial to Nintendo than harmful, it keeps people invested in a product and is basically free advertising. That seems to be the belief of most Japanese media producers on fan works, anyway.

On a personal note, Nintendo gets a lot of respect from me for not screwing over their fans who do this kind of stuff.

>>173779
After I just finished Twlight Princess. This just makes me want to play Skyward Sword more.

>>173846
And they're finally giving a shit about the Mother series.

http://www.moddb.com/mods/hyrule-total-war
NEAT

Golden Voyage Of Sinbad - Kali Scene
I can't help but wonder if this was inspirational. :)

....you do know that Kali is an actual "thing", right?

Has this been posted yet: http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/6ld2ha/screwattack-s-top-ten-zelda-bosses

>>175401
Did you forgot they have a youtube channel?
Top 10 WORST Zelda Bosses

>>175403
They have a what now?

>>175403
>gosh dangit
>frikking crap

Shit like this embarrasses me.

>>175431
Some people don't like swearing. Get over it.

>>175435
Mealy-mouthed, bowdlerized minced oaths like that just don't sound genuine, though.

Particularly the "gosh" bit. Gosh never sounds like something a real person would say out of genuine anger. It's a word for women and children being surprised with something positive, not an exclamation for when you are losing your cool.

>>175436
That depends entirely on your standards.

>>175435
Then they shouldn't swear. But that includes half-assed swears. At the very least, don't use childish versions of "real" swears--go with something that is not clearly just a swear word that's been watered down--use something like "zounds" or "crikey" or something.

Saying "gosh dangit" is just saying "god dammit" and trying to pretend like you're not swearing. Your intent and the meaning of your words is the same, you're just using lesser versions of them to "get away" with it. Which is embarrassing, especially when you don't have any censors to appease. Swear, or don't swear. Don't half-swear.

Link's Shadow (The Legend of Zelda)

>>175436
Someone check this dude's IP because this smells like ban evasion to me.

Truth always shines through, doesn't it?

>>175436
>not unironically shouting "gosh darn it to heck" when you're particularly frustrated
Pleb.

>>175448
>Not saying gosh fucking darn it to throw people off.

>>175295
>>175444
I'd just like to interrupt this witless argument about not-swearing to state for the record that both of these things are flip-gosh-darningly-cunting awesome.

>>175447
I'd like to point out that
>>175441
>>175436
>>175431
are three different anons

Anyway, back to Zelda.

>>175441
>especially when you don't have any censors to appease

Except they do. It's an official website that hires THEM to make the videos, and their boss wants to keep things PG.

>>172893
He's back.

Majora's Mask Symbolism! The F…

He kinda has an emotional moment in the middle and it takes a while so look for that.

https://www.facebook.com/NintendoPleaseGivePrincessZeldaAStrongerRole
>“The character the Legend of Zelda series is named after is the ruler of a country with the Power of Wisdom and the Gods at her disposal, yet she’s often represented as a damsel in distress. While she’s had great moments as characters like Sheik and Tetra, she more often than not feels like a background character, overshadowed by the two other Triforce bearers, Link and Ganon. Nintendo, the fans, male and female, have wanted this for so long: please give Princess Zelda future roles more befitting of her actual attributes. And, if you see fit, make her a playable protagonist.”

>>175441
Its even worse when ADULT cartoons do it. The Simpsons has a nasty habit of always doing half-swears like saying "Oh son of a---" INTERRUPTED EVEN THOUGH ITS FOR ADULTS. That's so obnoxious.

And for lack of a better word, the light swearing in animated movies like Rango (which Soccer Bitches and Retarded Helicopter Loser Parents hated) helped craft the gritty desperate desert world of Rango. So I say, yes swear when appropriate.

>>176593
Zelda usually does get roles befitting of wisdom, especially after Link to the Past: I don't think that's a real PROBLEM, although I would certainly give a Zelda game a chance. What's more notable is that she and Ganon don't even APPEAR for half the series. The games are defined by adventure and new places and peope and such, but there's only one real constant: Link is the hero. If Nintendo were to make a game where Zelda was the main character, that'd be great, but it'd be like Super Princess Peach or Luigi's Mansion. Not a "mainline" game, for the simple fact that doing something so different deserves to be given a fully new experience, instead of blindly copying LoZ's.

>>176603
I'm sorry, I'm sure you're making some sort of fair point, but I just see how freely you're using the word "cunt" and all I hear is that you hate women.

>>176626
That's the misogyny troll. Ignore.

>>176626
What are you supposed to call a woman like Anita Sarkesian who acts like a bitch? A princess? A lady? A debutante?

I call a spade, a spade. And its a bit discrediting for you to ignore the rest of the post just because I called Anita exactly what she was.

>>176628

You could start by not being ridiculous.

>>176628
Look, I'm sure you never noticed how there seem to be a lot more common female-specific insults than male-specific ones, but it sure doesn't help your point to focus on them.

I mean, why would you call a female idiot an idiot when much better terms exist, right? They must be there for a good reason!

Also, in case anything is still getting through: "we can't do this because our ideological enemy mentioned it" is bullshit. Non-political example: That sort of idiocy leads to neo-/b/tards spamming threads about videogames that feature nonhuman characters because "furries like this game".

>>176631
>there seem to be a lot more common female-specific insults than male-specific ones

Really? Let me think here.
>Dick (along with all other dick-related insults like 'dickhead' and 'pencil-dick')
>Asshole
>Bastard
>Motherfucker
>Prick
>Cocksucker
>Pretty much every homophobic slur except 'dyke' (there are actually quite a lot of these)
>Son of a bitch (technically insulting a man by calling his mother a prostitute, but it IS a male-specific one)
>Pussy (technically a female-related term, but used pretty much solely for males)

So yeah, not really. The male ones are just more socially acceptable to use nowadays. I honestly don't see why we can't have female-specific insults to go along with the slew of male ones already in use. Isn't that what equality is all about?

>>176635

men are the only people on earth to have assholes, confirmed

if you guys legitimately start arguing MRA topics in here im taking your toys away

>>176636
I've never in my life heard someone who was angry at a woman call that woman an "asshole". It's pretty much solely used on men.
I HAVE heard men being called "cunts", even though I was taught in school that most men do not in fact have those. Bit of a puzzler, that.

But I'll stop now. Sorry for increasing the derailment of an already derailing thread, Mr. (or Ms.) Mod.

Anyone get to play Windwaker HD at BestBuy last week?

>>176631
>>176635
>Getting upset over gendered insults.
>>>WHITE PEOPLE DETECTED<<<

How about that Legend of Zelda?

Well seriously. Did anyone else get the art book?

>>176641
You mean the Hyrule Historia? I got that as soon as it released here in the states. Wonderful stuff.

>>176182
Well I thought this was informative.

>>176651
I'm mulling over getting it from Amazon, but I think I'll wait until my next payday. It's definitely on my wishlist, though.

>>176641
I pre-ordered the shit out of it.
And it was glorious.

>>176698
The (slightly mad) triple-timeline idea in the Historia did give me an idea as to how to get a "playable Zelda" game off the ground. Stealing kinda liberally from Dreamfall, but it does chime with the "two worlds" staple at the core of the series:

In every age, three wielders of the Triforce are born. But we're introduced to a world where a Link was born, but no Zelda. This is world of clockwork and industry, where magic has long died out and the Triforce has become no more than a lump of metal in a museum. The Kingdom of Hyrule is no more, and in its place is a vibrant assemblage of peoples and cultures, getting by on their muscles and their wits (basically, it's the Wind Waker timeline, but that's obviously not going to be revealed to the player straight up). Link is a youngster in this world, a tinkerer and a smith's apprentice, who one day hears an urgent voice over his shoulder...

...in another place, is a world with a Zelda, but no Link. This is a land where magic reigns, where the Triforce has accumulated so much power that it's become immaterial (this is the Twilight Princess timeline, naturally). But with nothing to threaten it, this Kingdom of Hyrule has become lifeless and sterile, and with the inhabitants' minds on higher things no one listens to the premonitions of doom Princess Zelda has witnessed. Zelda takes it upon herself to dispel the threat, and finds that something is trying to break through from another world.

That "something", of course, is Ganon. He was born in a world with no Link or Zelda to stop his ascension (the Link to the Past timeline), where he has triumphed completely and become all-powerful thanks to the Triforce. But his triumph came at a cost. Under his dark influence the world disintegrated, its inhabitants thrown into an endless limbo, contracting until he alone remained, a keen intelligence trapped in a beast's body and unable to die. He seeks a way out, at any price.

Separated across worlds, it is impossible for Zelda or Link to inhabit the same space. Link specialises in martial skill and using items fashioned by smithery, whereas Zelda relies on magic and stealth, utilising her Sheika training. When controlling one, the other acts as a ghostly presence able to gather hints and target enemies, basically acting as a cross-dimensional Navi. Zelda delivers tips and advice to Link using this phantom connection, whereas in Zelda's world this ghostly Link acts as a sounding board for Zelda to say things out loud for the player's benefit. In both worlds, Ganon prowls as a cloud of thick black mist in the shape of a massive boar, manipulating figures behind the scenes but prone to fits of beastly rage when things don't go his way. Being immaterial, neither Link nor Zelda is able to confront him until the late game, when the three aspects of the Triforce are reunited and the three worlds dramatically fuse together.

Ideas? Suggestions?

>>176711
I like this.

Ganon having an alternate beast form would make sense. I explained to my younger brother why people were comparing Emboar from Pokémon to Ganon, and I tried to explain to him that Ganon used to look like a pig, but now he looks like a dude with sideburns and a beard.

>>176711
It's okay I guess. "Steampunk" is not a good descriptor for a world though, especially if it's the only one.

>>176716
I intentionally avoided the word in my description, it's just the name of the image I scraped from a google search. The defining characteristic of Link's world is that magic isn't a thing anymore. Any "steampunkiness" would be down to the individual art designer, it could just as easily be a grimy medieval low-fantasy place. But it's The Legend of Zelda, so it has to be at least a little colourful.

>>176711
Some of the ideas are pretty nifty I guess, and I like the idea of the contrast between the two worlds, but the steampunk aesthetic is way too tired out, not to mention "stealth" based gameplay and LoZ don't sound like they'd mix very well. I know there was some of it in WW, but not enough to get annoying.

>>176718
Again, Link's world doesn't have to be "steampunk" per se (I was envisioning something more Renaissance-y, personally, taking on the aesthetics of the Italian Masters much the same way SS adopted impressionism), but if it starts feeling samey you have Zelda's world as a palette-cleanser, a realm that's both ethereal and slightly creepy.

As for LoZ and stealth, I think that's chiefly because Link's classic play style doesn't really lend itself to sneakiness, so it's always going to feel awkward when shoehorned in (oh Phantom bloody Hourglass...). Whereas here we have half the game and an entire player-character built from the ground-up with this play style in mind (for example, Link's ghost icon acting as a surveillance alarm), which should hopefully make for a more satisfying experience.

Yeah no, stealth gameplay's not a fun thing for a Zelda game and it really hurts dungeon design to slam down each player as having such specific mechanics. Making all the fantastical parts of the game also the half where you're not allowed to explore or dick around is just not advisable at all.
It's way too focused on story and making the story dictate the rest of the game, restricting it in ways that Zelda shouldn't. The land doesn't sound interesting except for narrative implications, the gameplay sounds like it'd get repetitive and constricting, and the whole multi-timeline Triforce nonsense is just way too convoluted a plot hook to hinge the whole thing on.

>>176722
I didn't think the core concept was that obtuse. I was originally thinking from a "mechanics up" point of view and boiling everything down to the bare essentials, the multi-timeline stuff was just inspiration.

But if you don't think it works then...uh...well, I'm not a Nintendo designer, so I guess me going back to the drawing board and thinking up something else is fairly irrelevant in the grand scheme of things...

The thing about trying to outline a specific style for a Zelda game, and something I don't think enough enough fans have noticed since I keep seeing Steampunk/Cyberpunk/Dieselpunk ideas, is that levels of technology and aesthetics can fluctuate wildly within the games themselves. Levels of access might be generalized, like how the Gorons in TP have a massive mining installation yet it all seems to be based around gears and pulleys and interlocking gears, which you can see in other places. So it's not limited to that one race. But then you step into a dungeon and see devices nowhere else in the game world. Like the huge bridges in the forest temple and the aqueducts in the water temple. It's technology which has no reason to exist other than to create puzzles and isn't tied to what the world outside is like. So the thing that worries me is, when you start locking down Zelda's style into one set of criteria, how does that affect the dungeons, the areas where, up until SS, players spent most of their time?

>>176730
It seems like in some, they've had a sort of design similarity between relic devices found in dungeons, where it's like all the dungeons were built by a single civilization that had different technology than anything that exists in the world anymore. I like it when they do that because it makes the world feel more alive in a way--all those temples being made by the same progenitors, and everything. They don't necessarily need to be more advanced than the current generation, but the whole "lost technology / lost art" thing helps make dungeons feel more necessary.

>>176737
The 'lost civilisation' vibe given by a lot of the dungeons does go a long way toward making LoZ feel like a world with a long and elaborate history, and I think it's one of the series' strengths that it lends itself toward so much variety. There's so much implied depth to the world that no two games ever need to be completely the same.

Another strength I think is the willingness to fully utilize the hardware it's been gifted with and build whole games around the mechanics that result, such as Z-targeting in OoT, the GBA link-up in FSA and especially the Wii-mote in SS. It got me thinking about how a future Zelda game might take advantage of the Wii U tablet, since most ideas for the thing revolve around map screens and item menus, which seems a waste of a good piece of hardware.

And then it struck me that the tablet would work well with this "two worlds" concept I'd been thinking of, and the solution's sounds so elegant to me that I'm kicking myself for not thinking of it before. In LttP, you transport from one world to the other using a magic mirror. How about, instead of being a teleportation item, the tablet itself acts as a "magic mirror", letting you see the dungeon you're in from another universe's point of view?

Imagine you're exploring a dungeon in Link's world (the 'physical' world), and you come across a lowered bridge that can only raise when lifted by pillars of fire. Of course, Link can't produce fire from his fingertips, and the pyres aren't accessible with a great big bridge blocking it, but Zelda learnt Din's Fire in her last temple. So what you do is hold the tablet up to the television screen (turning your tablet into a 'magic mirror') and see that the bridge is missing and the pyres are visible in Zelda's world (the 'magical' world). You use the tablet to squiggle a glyph, and hey presto, the fires light up in Zelda's world! Meanwhile, in Link's world, the bridge seems to lift up by itself, allowing him to progress.

The same principle applies in reverse. Zelda comes across a door that can't be opened because the gears are all fused and rusted over. So you hold up the tablet and see that the mechanism is still functioning in Link's world. You can use the touchscreen to switch levers and turn knobs, opening the door for Zelda. It's also useful for finding secrets in town settings: a temple that's abandoned and overgrown with moss in one world is a vibrant and populated city in the other. You see a massive bazaar, hold up the magic mirror and see that in the other world, the space behind the bazaar is a large hollow with an open chest inside, meaning that in this world the secret may still be there...if you can get to it.

Which means, of course, that the 'magic mirror' becomes the central macguffin of the plot, the item the bad guy wants to steal. "Legend of Zelda: Something-Something Mirror". Does that sound like a better idea? If you think the physical/magical/dark, Link/Zelda/Ganon think is a needless complication, I'm cool with that, I think it's a neat idea on its own.

Unless you think it's dumb, in which case...um...yeah, I got nuffin.

>>176770
That brings in the whole problem of how to translate it to the portable form if you want to play it on the go.

>>176771
Why would that affect a Wii U game?

>>176776
I think it's like...mandated or something that you need to be able to play games exclusively on the tablet. Which is kinda dumb in that it circumscribes what you can do with the thing.

If that's the case, then I suppose instead of holding the tablet up to the screen you can just have a "viewpoint toggle" that activates when you press a button. It'd be a lot less intuitive, though.

>>176794
I'm not sure what you're talking about. Games seem to use the tablet in different ways. Sometimes you can just use it as an extra screen you can switch to, sometimes you need to use it as an extra interface.

>>176794
Not all Wii U games can be played Gamepad-only.

>>176795
>>176800
Oh good! In that case, ignore me, I am a dumb.

New events posted for Zelda: Symphony of the Goddess.

>The newly announced dates for Season 1 and Second Quest include:

>Season 1
>Baltimore, MD; Meyerhoff Symphony Hall; July 27
>Newark, NJ; New Jersey Performing Arts Center; August 9 & 10
>Grand Rapids, MI; Devos Hall; October 19

>Season 2 "Second Quest"
>Austin, TX; The Long Center; June 29
>Philadelphia, PA; Mann Center; July 25
>Toronto, ON; Sony Centre; September 7
>Seattle, WA; Benaroya Hall; September 12
>San Jose, CA; San Jose Civic; December 14

Saw it last year and loved it, but sadly they're not coming back to Colorado (yet). :(

Majora's Mask Symbolism! Moon …

Majora's Mask Symbolism! The F…

Majora's Mask Symbolism! THE E…

It nearly took him to the hospital but it's finished.

A decent anaysis of the symbolism of Majora's mask. Though I wish he went into the tower of babel stuff anyway.

Anyway it's a good way to kill an hour.

>>177327
>analysis