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  • 08/21/12 - Poll ended; /cod/ split off as a new board from /pco/.

File 137283399973.jpg - (71.39KB , 401x500 , a male human being.jpg )
380953 No. 380953
Are you practicing anything? Do you want to? Are you interested in studying? This is the thread to talk about the body, the mind, the block, the sweep, and the arm lock.

To avoid shittiness, please no:
1. "my style >> your style"
2. "traditional styles are shit MMA FTW"
3. See 1 and 2

Shall we?
Expand all images
>> No. 380954
File 137283447541.jpg - (353.90KB , 1280x1024 , 002346.jpg )
please. i left that shit behind with my bleached hair. the only style is no style. the only form is all forms.

learn about anything. keep what is useful. let go of what is useless. adapt and form. practice and grow. build a foundation then be ready to shatter it when you can stand without it.

but please. speak about schools and lineages all you want. moves. how to become the mechanical man. it's all part of the learning process. you must build in order to know what must be dismantled.
>> No. 380955
i dunno maeby id like to try krav maga someday i dunno
>> No. 380956
File 137283598793.jpg - (133.96KB , 500x500 , jorge wants to be hardcore.jpg )
those fuckers are intense hombres. you gotta commit, man. none of this "jorge wants to be hardcore but his mom won't let him" shit.
>> No. 380958
Sure is summer in here.
>> No. 380959
Yeah same. It seems really cool, but I'm def way too weak to get into it atm, and that's if I could find anywhere that teaches it around here, which I couldn't.
Man like 95% of your posts are the worst kind of shitposts, don't try to be hard.
>> No. 380960
Yeah, I know. A good pal o' mine's an instructor at a place by my house.
And we've just been talking about it and theory mainly.
Sure I gotta commit. S why I said someday!
>> No. 380964
Since my health has picked up, and I'm hopefully getting some money in, I'm gonna start training Taekwondo and MMA seriously again, maybe checking out a BJJ school I spotted recently.
>> No. 380965
Trying to learn aikido and sambo at the same time, it's not working very well.
>> No. 380968
File 137286065328.jpg - (62.55KB , 367x590 , link.jpg )
So if the martial art you practice utilizes a kiai/yell/battle cry, what kind of sound do you make for it? When I took martial arts I went "HUT" and "HAA"

A lot of the others in my group simply made a noise because they were instructed to, often after they'd make their attacks, and didn't synchronize it with their attacks for more power so they ended up sounding very unnatural. They'd do a kick and then afterwards they'd go "ehh" or "oi" which I found strange.
>> No. 380970
>> No. 380971
I don't make noise, I make love.
>> No. 380972
started with competitive TKD. primarily studied wing chun. also dabbled in various other styles. working on escrima now. studied "traditional" JKD from a certified instructor a bit ago. it's funny treating jeet kune do as a style. it defies the whole point unless you are willing to adapt it as best you can and be willing to let go or create anew the things you learn in those classes.

the most adept people (going by styles alone) that i've ever sparred with: BJJ (grappling is so not my forte), escrima practitioners, thai kick boxers, and western boxers. depending on who i was versus, i was either getting embarrassed and metaphorically undressed at every step or was fearing for my life.

never sparred versus a krav maga practitioner.
>> No. 380975
I remember a friend of mine said I sounded like an orc when I threw a punch. Also, that my punches hurt when I did that.
>> No. 380978
Anyways, throughout the years tried out Karate, Aikido, and Wing Chun. Neither worked for me (at the time), but each taught me something valuable (how to hold the fist, balance, how to position my legs when evading, how to fall, etc). Eventually found the Wu Tang system, and this one finally stuck with me. For those who do not know, Wu Tang was invented in Taiwan by a chinese refugee master who knew several different styles (Northern Mantis, Long Fist, Tai Chi, Ba Gua and 2 others) and ended up combining all of them into one system.
>> No. 380979
File 137287895611.jpg - (69.88KB , 480x320 , image.jpg )

>> No. 380982
"Kia" is the most common one. Sometimes the instructor goes "atai"

Man, wish I could learn a system like that.
>> No. 380986

So…what you mean to say…is that Wu Tang ain’t nothin’ to fuck with?
>> No. 380989
A few years ago, before going in the army, I took Tae Kwan Do for about a year-ish. I reached green belt (or blue belt; I got both but I forget the order), then my group (we used the basement of a local gym) switched from ATF to ITF and we had to suddenly learn a bunch of new forms to maintain our belts. At about the same time, I ran out of money, so I couldn't afford to pay the fees anymore, anyway.

I still have my uniform, pads, and belts. Perhaps one day I'll take it back up, but if I do I'll probably start from White belt again. Or take a more practical martial art; but I don't have money for anything right now, so it doesn't matter.
>> No. 380993
I wish I had friends into sparring so I could get my sparring fix without paying. I had one back in the day, but we're no longer friends for various reasons. I guess I'll look into some meetup groups or something.

Also, I apologize if this is seen as breaking the rules mentioned above, but I quit Tae Kwon Do after receiving my first-degree black belt upon realizing that I gained nothing from it. Granted, this could be partially because the particular dojang I went to seemed to prioritize form to the extent that sparring was neglected, but regardless it's fairly common knowledge of how impractical the style is (furthermore, the form you use for forms and for sparring differ slightly, so in some ways it almost seems counterproductive).
--Not that it's not impressive to get your fourth degree or anything--that's certainly an accomplishment, and more power to you if it's something you find rewarding.

I dunno. I think my disdain at least partially stems from my parents' pressuring me into Tae Kwon Do to try and get me to embrace my cultural heritage, and such attempts often seemed doomed at the start.
>> No. 380995
you learned a dance. there's art to it. no shame if it wasn't your choice at the time.

dance of any kind translates well to combat, in my opinion. it just takes practice.

good mister twister. you're looking kinda cool.
>> No. 381017
File 137296952610.jpg - (248.56KB , 552x317 , FilipinoMartialArts.jpg )
I took about five years of Okinawan Karate. It was ok, but not really what I wanted. The dojo seemed more form and competition focused than self defense. I also did fencing club and took classes in hs and college.

I want to learn how to defend myself, but I'm a bit handicapped from my spinal injury, and hormone therapy means that raw strength isn't easy for me to achieve or sustain. So I'm looking at Akido or Judo, and maybe a Filipino martial art for armed striking.

Anyone have experience with Escrima/Arnis?
>> No. 381018
Of course not. Just that after years of failed attempts, I have finally found what suits me. There are a gazilion styles out there, and you just have to find what works for you.

This one of the styles included in the system:
This is Baji Quanyoutube thumb
>> No. 381019
>good mister twister. you're looking kinda cool.
Never thought I'd ever read that.
>> No. 381020
File 13729729796.jpg - (726.75KB , 1536x2048 , gun death machine.jpg )
>martial arts
>> No. 381023
krav maga incorporates guns, which is especially useful for close quarters combat when aiming and firing a bad boy of that size is out of the question.
me neither.

okay. only somewhat related. for my nightwing costume, i went a bit overboard and bought real self-defense items including flashlight escrima sticks for blinding opponents and a electrical small stun flashlight.

for the sake of both my need to know how much damage i could do to another person with it and trying to get back to improving my physical sensitivity and pain thresholds, i decided to try it on myself.

holy fuck. it's exactly as i imagined and it goes through jeans. slight burning smell afterward, too.
>> No. 381037
Ah, cold and callous, but mistaken one of the primary reasons for practicing martial arts.

It is really easy to kill a human being. Blows to the throat, upward blows to the nose, puncture wounds at any of a dozen places all over the body. Even blunt force impact can cause internal bleeding which, without modern medical facilities, you can die from. Note that, like your gun, none of this requires any kind of martial knowledge.

The purpose of training in Martial Arts is to school the body and mind in primarily non-violent takedown. Or at least, non-fatal. This is why it is taught as "Self-Defense"; these are skills that, applied aggressively, will fail, if only because of guns and a dozen other ways that you can really simply just kill someone.

It's hard to draw this line for some people because they've never been in a fight. They don't get that murder can be accidental. They don't get that untrained amateurs can kill someone, and they sure as hell are not thinking about any of that in the moment. They are thinking "him or me", and can find the decision to swing that bottle into someones' face to be made very quickly and without thought to what this might entail for the attacker and the defender.
>> No. 381043
I view hand to hand combat as something you use if you can't get your hands on a knife, pistol or rifle.

Pure fistfights are for baboons to establish dominance and teenagers to blow off steam.
>> No. 381048
What's wrong with fist-fighting?
And remember, your point only counts if it doesn't include words like ~uncultured~ or ~uncivilized~
>> No. 381051
It's kind of like using your hands to dig a hole when a shovel is nearby. Or using your hands to eat pasta when you have a fork.

As humans we're capable of using tools, and when we're in situations such things are not possible... we can go lizard brain to defend ourselves. Martial arts is useful only in directing the instinctual reactions into something more efficient.

I'm not saying martial arts are useless.. quite the opposite. But if your life is in danger, get to a fucking weapon and kill the motherfucker.
>> No. 381052
This is a gross underestimate of what martial arts are capable of teaching and an overestimate of our ability to always have the tools we need available to when in an emergency. This is why I hate studying limited "styles".

Will type more later when not on a mobile.
>> No. 381054
>go for a weapon and kill the motherfucker

Generally a terrible idea if it's already escalated to that point, not the least of which because the opposite party will also be reaching for a killing implement. Better to take them out quickly, non-fatally, and with a minimum of damage to by-standers and the surrounding environment. It will save you a ton on legal fees, not to mention any of that pesky moral guilt you might find yourself bogged down with afterwards.

The thing is is that most fights are like you said; people get too drunk and they are blowing off steam. They don't want to die and they don't necessarily want to kill, and meeting them again with such force is well above and beyond what the situation usually calls for. Better to pin them and hold them with their arms in control until everyone cools down/the cops arrive.

The thing with firearms is that

1). They will never be close enough to hand when the shit goes down unless you are already packing, which is a recipe for disaster in a crowded space where people are drinking.

2). You will kill somebody with a gun. Even with bean bag rounds and rubber bullets (which are only effective outside a certain range) they can still cause death due to blunt force trauma. And legally, that's very hard to make not look like per-meditated murder. When you are repelling an invader from your home, then often only the sight of the gun is really necessary to make the person flee. I don't know if you've ever put a load of buckshot through a drywall slab but it's a bitch and a half to get repaired, especially in your own home. When you are out at the kind of venue where a fight can occur, often you are far from your firearm, getting to your firearm means taking a beating and limping away, and once you walk back in with said firearm, it looks a hell of a lot less like self-defense.

I am not arguing the technical efficacy of guns. There are few things more tactically sound in a winner-take-all conflict than a gun. But you will almost never need to use a gun like that unless it is in your job description (e.g. military, drug dealers, security personal, etc.), because the fights civilians have are almost never take-all.

It is far more impressive, and far more subtle, to subdue an opponent simply by twisting their wrist. Guns add a lot of thorns in your ass, especially if you have none of the paperwork to back them up.
>> No. 381064
I'm talking about how martial arts isn't to be used in legitimate self defense scenarios if weapons are available. Rabblerousing and drunk fighting don't register on that scale.

Obviously don't bring a shotgun to a fistfight, in fact if you know what you're doing you shouldn't ever end up in one.
Reasons why not:
>How do you know the other guy will honor it and keep it to fists?
>How do you know the other guy won't pull out a weapon first and kill you before you can respond?
>How do you know his buddy isn't behind you getting ready to kick your shit?
>How do you know he isn't much better at martial arts?
>How do you know he won't continue beating you until you're dead?
>How do you know he won't accidentally kill you?

Betting that violent people will show restraint is a losing proposition every single time. Playing by some self-invented rules of honor when your well being is in danger is even worse.

This was funny though
>not the least of which because the opposite party will also be reaching for a killing implement
>> No. 381074
>Playing by some self-invented rules of honor when your well being is in danger is even worse.
How about playing by rule of law?
>> No. 381078
Law allows for self defense... What kind of shitty place do you live in you can't defend yourself?
>> No. 381094
Different anon, but I was always taught that if you defend yourself, you're the wrong one. Every time I stood up to anyone (verbally, I'm not strong enough to fight anyone), I got in trouble.
>> No. 381101
> I was always taught that if you defend yourself, you're the wrong one.

That's so wrong to do to a kid, I can't even imagine how hard it was. You've done well to make it this far in life honestly.
>> No. 381120
ugh too drunk to make cogent argument but basically martial arts are art forms that should in principle teach about the body, combat, the general art of war, and how to avoid fighting/injury.

physical and mental transformation to become more resilient and capable are the main focus. it's a metaphor as well as a versatile study that can transform the practitioner into both a weapon and a philosopher.

anything less is merely brawling, dancing, or foolishness.
>> No. 381128
You are able to defend yourself but there is a legal limit, at least in the U.S., where that flies out the door, and pulling a gun only exacerbates it in most cases. Breaking someone's arm is one thing, but shooting them can turn it into voluntary manslaughter.

Basically do not be George Zimmerman. If you know enough to draw the line between combat styles, you know enough to talk yourself out of the situation before it ever gets there.
>> No. 381139
Zimmerman is not a good example of going overboard...
>> No. 381140

I'm a bit baffled as to why you're assuming that people take martial arts for the sole purpose of self-defense.
You also seem to be operating under the assumption that everyone has easy access to a lethal weapon of some kind in most situations.
As for martial artists restricting themselves with "self-invented rules of honor" in a real situation, I think they're generally taught not to. If I recall correctly, Bruce Lee himself has said that in a real fight, he wouldn't hesitate to grab whatever's around him and use it to whale on his attacker.
>> No. 381143
>everyone has easy access to a lethal weapon of some kind in most situations
Everyone can.
For example I have a small but not too small lel knife sheath strapped to my penis and a chloroform spray tied in a condom inside my butt. I am armed at all times my friend, especially when mostly naked.
How can your Wing Chun Tae Kwan Dont deal with this level or preparation??!?

Jokes aside I'm a bit baffled as to why you assume I assume that. I've pretty much said it's a perfect thing to practice for self discipline, exercise and sticky situations.
>> No. 381146
File 137313946936.jpg - (14.20KB , 362x372 , rf Bruce Lee scared.jpg )
Welp, this thread got silly surprisingly fast.

What I had in mind was more of "say what you are practicing" and nothing more.

But no, ppl just HAVE to argue.
>> No. 381147
That doesn't make for a very good thread. Threads are for discussion.
>> No. 381151
Because saying things like
>Pure fistfights are for baboons to establish dominance and teenagers to blow off steam
and starting these armed vs unarmed combat arguements to begin with (when the thread arguably wasn't even on the topic of MA as self-defense as much as MA as a hobby/interest) would indicate that that would be your point of view. Does that make sense?
>> No. 381153
You do realize that the "martial" in martial art means "war", and includes stuff like swords? It doesn't mean just hand to hand combat. Me introducing weapons is well in line with the topic.

As for
>Pure fistfights are for baboons to establish dominance and teenagers to blow off steam
It's a gentle jab at people who get obsessed with a style just to look cool or tough.

I've been joking pretty much constantly, I don't really have a knife attached to my dick either.
>> No. 381160
>It's a gentle jab at people who get obsessed with a style just to look cool or tough.
>I've been joking pretty much constantly
Fair enough, I guess, even if neither of these were very clear, judging from the reaction you generated.

Aaaanyway, I was thinking about taking up boxing, as it's been a while since I got my sparring fix, and it interests me. My handwork is weak. Can I expect much brain damage in my future?
>> No. 381164
this is a mislabeled reaction image.
>> No. 381179
I believe it's called >filename
>> No. 381182
no i'm not playing your bullshit distraction game that you always try.

i'm saying that bruce isn't scared. i think this is when he's in the middle of a killing a man with his stomp. a scene from "Enter the Dragon"? that's a mixture of joy, pain, and sorrow for having just terminated a man's life. not fear.

Baddest Fight Scenes EVER! - E…youtube thumb
>> No. 381207
File 137322740536.jpg - (40.94KB , 270x340 , this awesome dude built a temple in Manhattan.jpg )
>> No. 381212
We all know the best movie hand to hand fights, but sword fights are often much more difficult, in my opinion this is the best sword fight in film.

1:16:00 in.

The Mark of Zorro 1940 DVDRip Xvidyoutube thumb
>> No. 381232
>We all know the best movie hand to hand fights
Drunken Master II has the best foot to hand fight.
>> No. 381233
Best sword fight is the last fight in Sword of the Stranger, unless that's not qualified because it's animated.
>> No. 381245
I'm not sure what you would call crippled masters, but it's definitely the best something.

The Crippled Masters - Final Sceneyoutube thumb

Never seen it, I'll look it up.
>> No. 381258

I haven’t seen anything that awesome in a week. Thanks.
>> No. 381260
I had a bit of downtime so I ended up watching the whole thing. There's some pretty good fights paced throughout and they escalate nicely. Thanks for the rec.
>> No. 382554
So I found this
Northern Praying Mantis KungFu Methodsyoutube thumb
>> No. 382619
My favorite sword fight is the one at the endof Rob Roy, because it actually looked like two men trying to kill each other in a duel, showing pauses and progressive wear and fatigue instead of a continuous dance going on for several minutes. Plus the way MacGregor kills that faggot Cunningham was just awesome.
>> No. 382652
I love this, but I'm disappointed it doesn't get into applications.
>> No. 382667
File 137576937520.jpg - (60.46KB , 768x576 , praying mantis.jpg )
You are expecting too much from YouTube.

That, and the best way to learn is to learn IRL.
>> No. 382712
Yeah I am gonna stick with The Mark of Zorro but that is one of the best practical effects for a massive slash wound I've seen, it really looks like the left side of his ribcage was slit open.
>> No. 382803
>You are expecting too much from YouTube.
I've seen some fairly good youtube videos that get into application. I'll try to dig some of them up.

>That, and the best way to learn is to learn IRL.
Well yeah, obviously. I'm just saying, rather then watch a bunch of form practice, especially with Animal Kung-Fu which is designed to be difficult to grasp the meaning of techniques.

Something like this:
Taichi Combat (Yang style)youtube thumb
>> No. 382837
What I meant was most good schools of rare styles do not film their lessons or post them online. Karate? You got it. Judo? Sure. Northern Mantis? Tough luck.
>> No. 382883
I think I found a beast of a video:
Hung Gar - Tiger And Shaolin C…youtube thumb
>> No. 382954
I know what you mean.
In that spirit, have a video with a practical lesson by a Catch-as-Catch-Can-Wrestler.

Billy Robinson: Gotch Toe Holdyoutube thumb
>> No. 383131
This is a REAL nice video of Southern Mantis:
Southern Praying Mantis Kung F…youtube thumb
>> No. 385938
I'm starting to get interested in HEMA at the mo.

Ringen looks particularly brutal and practical.

>> No. 388591
Don't mind me, reviving dead threads...
Shaolin Longfist Advanced Kung…youtube thumb
>> No. 388764
Hope you ppl speak chinese
八步螳螂拳(8-Step Praying…youtube thumb
>> No. 388804
i'm taking western boxing/sparring with the big 'ol gloves to improve my striking, reflexes, timing, and fitness. i feel like all the techniques i've learned are essentially incomplete until i've been able to use them versus someone trained in boxing, and i feel like i can't really understand boxing until i do it myself.

i'd say i was influenced by bruce lee's fascination and incorporation of it, but that would be an oversimplification of what i've always known to be true... typical eastern martial arts are more often than not too rigid and stylized. real delivery of combat prowess doesn't require mimicry of animal stances or forms. they're like scaffolds for true combative understanding - only by learning why their rules exist can you understand when they do not apply and when to dissolve them. i feel like i've reached a particular stage where i'm ready to immerse myself in something less like a philosophy school and more like a fight. where better to apply the philosophies of combat?

boxing is one of the purest forms of sportsmanlike combat that I know of. far moreso than the current MMA culture. it's not perfect and is incredibly handicapping by its very nature (gloved hands, no kicks, strikes above belt) but the focus on fundamentals and the culture of precise and sustained movement are unmatched. it's not a bro culture and it's not an academic culture. it's a fighter culture. it's something my training has been lacking.

sage because... well... i want to express and cultivate my own jeet kune do and it feels weird talking about my current path in a thread like this.
>> No. 389033
I've studied a few styles. none for more than 2 years though
boxing which I love (6 punches that can be delivered a million ways and the most useful defense system in my experience)
muy thai (really fun)
bjj (really fun)
kyokushin karate (I did it as a kid)
kendo (I started because I was trying to talk to a cute girl in the kendo class learned nothing but how to hold a sword)

mostly I've found in the few times I've been in a physical confrontation striking matters if you know you're going to fight unless you're really fucking good at it then I guess you can rely on it.

the 3 most recent fights in my memory were against 3 people taller than me and 2 had me in weight. I won 2 of the fights because I out wrestled them. I'll probably describe them in a later post.

I'm actually joining the marines in march so I'll be learning usmc martial arts and I'll describe that here afterwards.
>> No. 389192
Just how good (or bad) this is would be hard to say, since he was but a boy at that time:
Jet Li 1978 — Changquanyoutube thumb
>> No. 389426
That's a good form for anyone.

Just got back from my old TKD gym, and as I get older, I find I like teaching a lot more. We did no-contact sparring today, and I interrupted every match to give pointers. One guy wasn't keeping his eyes moving during a back kick, one guy was just going into it with no reason or plan, and one guy just scrambled backwards whenever I kicked at him. It was nice leaving them all with some pointers.

I'm training now for my second Dan in May, and after that I may seriously set my eyes on working as an instructor.
>> No. 389546
I wish I could just learn to a master level and teach, myself.

But I need to get a job soon, and that won't be a possibility for quite a while.
>> No. 390131
File 139381778231.gif - (62.38KB , 950x425 , sifu Tony Chuy northern mantis poses.gif )
Found this wonderful image.

The filename has everything.
>> No. 390210
File 139406053042.jpg - (60.66KB , 640x360 , 140227091044-mma-armor-3-horizontal-gallery.jpg )
So, I read on the news that an Australian company is about to commercialize a set of lightweight armor that will allow martial arts practitioners to use weapons for real.

What do you guys think, is this idea going to caught on?
>> No. 390211
It'd just be fencing with impractical weapons so sure if enough people can be sold on the idea, might even innovate fencing gear which has been sorely lagging behind the quality of modern fencing swords, shits way more painful now. hurts like a righteous motherfucker.
>> No. 390212
Fencing swords are practical?
>> No. 390216
In the you can practice for a real sword yes, fucking always hear people talking up katanas or claymores or whatever the sword of the week is but if you were actually in want of a sword for combat you'd want a rapier, epee, foil or towards the heavier side of things a saber.

When I can turn my wrist and slit a belly open in half the time with twice the speed needing only a fraction of the room required required to swing anything larger than a machete while maintaining distance that's optimal.

I mean if it had to be a sword a razorblade wire that can poke a hole in a heart before most other weapons of a similar nature leave the sheath is what I'd want.

That said what you really want is a spear or halberd if you are going melee, that's what Bayonets have always been about, turn your rifle into a spear.
>> No. 390226
I'm reminded that there's some sort of prototype sportswear that immediately hardens in response to physical trauma. It doesn't protect against sharp implements, but still. Nanomachines, son.
>> No. 390233
HEMA is already a thing so...maybe it just got cheaper.
>> No. 390527
Like D3O but stronger?
>> No. 390555
When I was younger, and stupid (you remember) I got invited to a party I shouldn't have gone to, by a girl I shouldn't have been talking to.

Long story short, three guys cornered me in the kitchen, and told me to leave. The girl wanted me to stay. I was young and stupid.

My style is the ruin your shit style by any means necessary. I had a bleeding lip and a knot on my forehead, but those three guys are afraid of me, even to this day.

Fights aren't won by styles. Fights are won by fighters.
>> No. 390593
Cool story bro.
>> No. 390639
>I got invited to a party I shouldn't have gone to, by a girl I shouldn't have been talking to

The fuck??

The only way I can see this happening is if she, and everyone else at the party were white, you were black, and this happened in the 50's.
>> No. 390667
He was talking to a woman from a harem and snuck in by pretending to be a eunuch?
>> No. 390668
Party crashing in general only tends to work if you know the people holding the party, unless its' a sufficiently sized rager. This is doubly true for dudes, where having some random guy show up, especially on the arm of some hot girl that one of the hosts were trying to hit on, is seen as being a pain in the hosts ass.

That said, it doesn't take much to freak out when backed into a corner and resort to biting and aiming for the groin and generally being bigger and scarier than you are. It's pretty effective against chump change who don't really know shit themselves and went in expecting a simple beatdown, not a panicked opponent who could seriously gouge an eye or inadvertently cause some other kind of grievous bodily harm by knowing nothing of what he's doing, merely acting out in any way he can to disabuse the larger opponents of the notion that he's easy pickings.
>> No. 390689
Or could have to do with gangs or cliques.
>> No. 390895
File 139606237696.jpg - (549.43KB , 1936x2592 , büüke.jpg )
So I bought this. A VERY valuable read.
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